What's a QFF point worth

[casanovawa]

It doesn't take long before it becomes pretty confusing, but as the posters are all saying, it basically depends on your strategy for redeeming your points as to what you are saving by not paying actual dollars for the fare/upgrade by using a combo of points plus real dollars for taxes and charges, and so what each point will be worth in redemption.

Some people redeem them for business/first class travel and so the savings they are making by not paying actual dollars is quite high, others redeem for economy travel and so the value per point save by not paying actual dollars is quite low...

Once you know what type of redemption strategy you are going to try for, you can work out if you are actually gaining a benefit in terms of earning the points... No use paying 1.5 cents per point earning them, if the benefit in redemptions are only 1.3 cents or so, you'd be be better of just paying the dollar value of the fare/upgrade...

There are various ways of working out how much they are worth in redemption and in earning but they are pretty simple...

 

[casanovawa]

Here's where my lack of knowledge is really going to show up. And I apologize in advance.

whiy don't you include the taxes, surcharges etc when determining the value of a point. Afterall this is a cost which makes up the airfare and can be paid with points. So if you do include the taxes in the calculation then you alter the value of a QFF point? In the above example $4500 divided by 140,000 = $0.032

secondly, I do understand the calculation which JohnK provided. What I don't understand is that if you earn one dollar per point when using your credit card, then 140,000 points = a spend of $140,000. Whereas in my example of 60,000 points = $60,000 spend (+ $370 for taxes). To me it seems more logical to spend 60,000 points on an airfare rather than 140,000 (and use the difference between 140,000 and 60,000 = 80,000) on a new award flight??? Can someone please explain where I have gone wrong

Stargazer, i personaly don't include the value of the surcharges because you have to pay for them in real dollars as you would pay in real dollars to just buy the whole actual fare to Hong Kong.. (PS ok you can pay surcharges with points etc but i never use the points to cover the taxes and surcharge and if YOU do it might slightly change the rationale below)

So JohnK is saying after removing the real dollars from both sides of the equation, what is left is a simple divison problem of dollars divided by points equals value/point...

So instead of $1200 for the actual fare if purchased direct, you are paying 60,000 QFF points plus $370... So to get to just points value $1200-$370= $830 and then divide by 60,000=~$0.01383 on that particular redemption.

Now there is no right and wrong in that cost of point redemtpion if that is how you choose to use them, but if you spent more than ~$0.01383 in earning each point you are coming out behind and probably should just go and buy the $1200 fare outright....

For the 140,000 OW RTW award JohnK is saying that 140,000 QFF points + ~$1,000 in taxes and surcharges is equivalent to a fare purchased outright for ~$4,500... Remove the actual dollars from both side by cancelling out and the actual value of the QFF points in this redemtpion scenario ~$3,500 (~$4,500 - ~$1,000) divide by 140,000 QFF points equals ~2.5 cents per QFF point.

Again not necessarily a good or bad figure as long as JohnK didn't spend more than 2.5 cents/QFF point to acquire them or else he would have been better of to go and buy the $4500 fare outright...

As to whether two 60,000 QFF awards to Hong Kong or 1 140,000 RTW award is better, thats all just up to personal preference. It will take longer and involved a greater spend to acquire that amount of points, but I have more interest in the 1 RTW trip than 2 trips to Hong Kong myself, but as long as in either scenario you are paying less to earn the points than you will get the value out of them by redeeming them, you are coming out ahead...

Hope that in some way makes it clear...

ASAs are also slightly different as you spend points to access them but then also get points back on the flight so you need to take the earned points into consideration as well, but understand the basic equations first...

 

[Awesom Andy]

When comparing the value between dollars and points, as long as you are using pre-tax values for both, or after-tax values for both, that should be fine. i.e. make sure you only compare apples with apples.

 

[JohnK]

whiy don't you include the taxes, surcharges etc when determining the value of a point. Afterall this is a cost which makes up the airfare and can be paid with points. So if you do include the taxes in the calculation then you alter the value of a QFF point? In the above example $4500 divided by 140,000 = $0.032

Because if I use QFF points to book a Oneworld award or even any award then I still need to pay the taxes.

So in my example of a Oneworld award it would cost ~$4,500 to purchase a similar product so if I still had to pay $1,000 in taxes and surcharges for an award booking then I am only receiving a benefit of ~$3,500 for my 140,000 QFF points.

secondly, I do understand the calculation which JohnK provided. What I don't understand is that if you earn one dollar per point when using your credit card, then 140,000 points = a spend of $140,000. Whereas in my example of 60,000 points = $60,000 spend (+ $370 for taxes). To me it seems more logical to spend 60,000 points on an airfare rather than 140,000 (and use the difference between 140,000 and 60,000 = 80,000) on a new award flight??? Can someone please explain where I have gone wrong

A classic award in economy to Asia is ~60,000 QFF points
A classic award in economy to London is ~128,000 QFF points
A classic award in economy to Los Angeles is ~96,000 QFF points

A Oneworld award is ~140,000 QFF points but I can travel up to 35,000 miles, 16 sectors and 5 stopovers....

 

[Foreigner]

Not an easy one and it is entirely up to the individual.

In my opinion

1 QFF point = ~2.5c (I know some people value them higher)
1 Velocity point = ~0.75c
1 Priority Club point = ~0.6c
1 Hhonors point = ~0.8c
1 Flying Club mile = ~1.5c
1 Diamond Club mile = ~5c

And SQ Krisflyer mile?

 

[Foreigner]

A classic award in economy to Asia is ~60,000 QFF points
A classic award in economy to London is ~128,000 QFF points
A classic award in economy to Los Angeles is ~96,000 QFF points

A Oneworld award is ~140,000 QFF points but I can travel up to 35,000 miles, 16 sectors and 5 stopovers....

How many QFF points in OW award business class? Do you see better value in business?

 

[arbcat]

MEL-HKG return in J
$7444 or 144000pts + $428

($7444 - $428) / 144000 = 4.9c per point

Not sure how it works out using as upgrades or points+pay though

 

[ozmille]

I always look at (and use my points for) JASA tickets. A SYD to FRA in Full Business is 256000 in points and AUD1035 in tax
when I do a dummy booking for the exact same dates and same flights the dollar value in Business Saver is AUD8736 or AUD14951 in fully flex business
for this itinerary (SYD-SIN-FRA-SYD) I will also earn 51346 miles as a platinum FF and get 520SC's, so this means the actual points I used for the ticket drops to 204654

so the way I look at it in this comparison a QF point is worth;
13916/204654 = 0,067997
(full business fare minus the taxes for the JASA divided by the number of points needed for the exact same ticket)

if you don't care about the flexibility of the tickets you can compare the dollar value of the discount business ticket with the fully flex JASA and then the value becomes
7701/204654 = 0,0376

 

[JohnK]

And SQ Krisflyer mile?

Not an easy to work out but also take note that SQ taxes and surcharges are high.

So assuming a SYD-BKK return flight is ~$1,000 and taxes and surcharges are ~$500 that leaves a net airfare of $500 and as this requires 46,750 KrisFlyer miles for the value of KrisFlyer mile would be $0.01069 per mile. The value could increase or drop depending on the destination as well.

How many QFF points in OW award business class? Do you see better value in business?

A Oneworld award in business class is 280,000 QFF points and the value would be slightly better as business class is usually priced at more than twice economy airfares.

Is it better value? That is up to the individual and for me at the moment I would look at quantity rather than quality. I have managed to accumulate close to 560,000 QFF points in just on 3 years and I could book 2 Oneworld awards in business class or 4 Oneworld awards in economy.

Assuming time was not the issue then I would go for economy and more trips and I am sure I will not be accumulating QFF points at this rate forever so why burn them on one trip?