What's a Velocity Point Worth

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What I have found with the VA PE awards is they are often available at short notice - rather inexpensively.
And of course that would be a benefit to many people especially business travellers. Is that likely to last though as the Velocity program matures? And why would anyone (who is aware) buy a last minute airfare when the award cost is cheaper and includes luggage, food and drink?

Personally I value my airlines miles/points highly and want to do something useful with them such as an overseas trip or RTW.
 
Best one I have found and will use in a couple of weeks is around 17c to 18c per point.

:D:D:D
 
J class international award fares are by far the best conversion rate. AUH to LHR return in J is 80k points versus ~$3.7k. Works out around $22 a point.
 
J class international award fares are by far the best conversion rate. AUH to LHR return in J is 80k points versus ~$3.7k. Works out around $22 a point.

Surely $3,700 / 80,000 = $0.046 or 4.6c / point??
 
also, assuming flying J in ethiad, and gold, you'd earn 15K points from a paid flight, plus 240Sc, so not placing a value on the sc, you'd use a cost of 95K (80K plus 15K foregone), and you have a lower value of 3.9c/point (which still seems pretty good to me.)
 
Thanks for the math on points....I am quietly building points on Velocity as the third opportunity for travel behind QF and SQ. The Amex Platinum Velocity card is a big help for producing points.
 
Thanks for the math on points....I am quietly building points on Velocity as the third opportunity for travel behind QF and SQ. The Amex Platinum Velocity card is a big help for producing points.

if you have a velocity plat card, another "issue" to take into account, is the free business class companion ticket, which in some cases halves the value of the points, as you can get twice as much value for the same price. I don't have one of these cards, so I can't really comment on how easy it is to get these seats, and if you only ever travel by yourself, it;s useless, but It's just something you should be aware of.
 
if you have a velocity plat card, another "issue" to take into account, is the free business class companion ticket, which in some cases halves the value of the points, as you can get twice as much value for the same price.

Yes, its a good point. There is a huge fake-out to the whole notion of value for points, and this example really shows us the reality of that. The more an airline overprices a ticket the more 'value' one can derive from using points to 'buy' that ticket. The closer to reality the ticket price becomes the less 'value' we derive.

Ultimately, to gain the absolute best ticket price, cash, classic and ASA type tickets all need to be compared and the best option chosen. Point value to the individual is not only a calculation of fare price versus points cost - the points themselves are easier or harder to obtain dependant to a large degree on peoples schemes and opportunities and should sway the decision to some degree.

For example, if you earn 50 million points a year 'for free' by way of standard payments then they have essentially no cost to you and fare tickets obtained by using them are also essentiually free. So even if a PER-MEL return J class flight cost $50 of real money you'd probably still be better off using points, no matter how many.

In fact, as I write this, it occurs that perhaps we really should focus a bit more in these types of conversation which we often have, about the _cost_ of points to us, and then be happy to trade them back to the airline for a cost + margin (cost and margin being quite individual, no doubt, for all of us).

If you'll indulge me, I have a QFF example in my head, I realise this is a VA thread, but its the calculation process that matters in the light of how the thread has evolved at this point:

Return fare PER-MEL, J, QF,

Cash $2800
Points 92,000 (variable, some fares are 500,000!)
Points cost, <2c ea as I don't "buy" points for more than this (I'll pass up on surcharges of 3% for example)

The cash versus points leads one to believe a derivation of 2,800 / 92,000 = 3c/point (down to 0.6c a point if you actually pay 500,000 points!!!)
The maximum points cost to me in this example is $0.02 x 92,000 = $1,840 if I actually paid the my maximum buy price of 2c each.

The reality of my buy price on points is, of course, much less, actually descending towards zero as I rarely pay a surcharge and points come to me by way of CC spend and bonuses of various types. It could be worked out if one tracks expense versus point accrual. Last time I did this, in May this year, I was running at about 0.58c per point cost but this only tracked the points I was "buying" via entry to new CC deals (99$ = new CC + 50,000 points type deals)

To recalculate the example using 0.58c / point = $0.0058 x 92,000 = $533.6 for the return J fare PER-MEL and back if I chose the 92,000 point fare or $2,900 if I paid 500,000 points.

Ahhh, I love this game, it really appeals to the lurking OCD in me
 
Best one I have found and will use in a couple of weeks is around 17c to 18c per point.

:D:D:D
Really? It must be a really special airfare that costs very little in terms of points.
 
Best one I have found and will use in a couple of weeks is around 17c to 18c per point.

:D:D:D

Melbourne to Broome in Business (MEL-PER, then Y to Broome) works out at 27c a point! 6,900 points + $228, for a fare priced at $2,084. The paid fare is more than the cost of separate fares for each segment though. Even if you worked out the value of the points based on the cheapest non sale economy fare of $359, it equates to 1.9c per point!

Still interested in your route though!
 
4 return J tickets Syd - Perth all up for $1,345.00 + 55200 points.

4 return tickets = 8 sectors at $1,399 each = $11,192.00

$11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / 55200 = 17.8c per point.


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
4 return J tickets Syd - Perth all up for $1,345.00 + 55200 points.

4 return tickets = 8 sectors at $1,399 each = $11,192.00

$11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / 55200 = 17.8c per point.


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

That's one way of calculating it, which personally I disagree with.

Firstly, if you were to pay for the 4 return tickets you'd earn points. I see you're gold, so assuming everyone was gold, that's 7.5 point per dollar.
7.5* 11200 = 84000 points [EDIT: should be 7.5*(11,192.00 - $1,345.00) = 73853)]

Therefore, by not paying, you're forfeiting just under 84000 points.

$11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / (55200+83940) = 7.1c per point. [EDIT: should be $11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / (55200+73853) = 7.6c per point]

If you were paying for those fares with a cc which earnt 3 points per dollar, you'd be down to 5.7c per point... [EDIT: should be $11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / (55200+103394) = 6.2c per point]


There is also the SC earn forfeited...

These calculations can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make them... I don't value a business class trip to Perth at $1400 each way... so I'd adjust my calcs for that. Another interesting this this exercise shows, is, quite likely, the more points you have, the less they are worth (IE a platinum will likely have more than a red, and someone with a velocity platinum amex will have more than they would have without). Moopere also raised this earlier.

Looking at all of the above, I think a better title for this thread would be "What's a Velocity Point Worth to you?"


Edit:Based on Mogul's advice, I have added in the new calcs, but clearly shown what has been changed, to try and help with understanding. also, based on pshepvic's advice, I have removed the bit about 2 for 1 fares, as apparently they are only valid on domestic.
http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/members/pshepvic.html
 
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As someone who would never pay for 4 return J flights most of the things you have highlighted are irrelevant to me.

Still earn points on pay part, not sure how this is split up between the 4 of us. CC points will still earn.

In comparison to saver fares there isn't much in it for lost points. Lost SC's won't make a difference either as I will still requal Gold but nowhere near Platinum.
 
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As someone who would never pay for 4 return J flights most of the things you have highlighted are irrelevant to me.

Still earn points on pay part, not sure how this is split up between the 4 of us. CC points will still earn.

In comparison to saver fares there isn't much in it for lost points. Lost SC's won't make a difference either as I will still requal Gold but nowhere near Platinum.

1. fair enough

2. I did not realise this, but if that's the case, that's awesome. And I didn't think about the cc points on the points + pay. Thanks.

3. The SC comment was more an afterthought, but as I said at the end, for some people, SC's are a lot more useful/relevant, so it's down to the induvidual.
 
2 for 1 J class on the Velocity Plat Amex is only for international flights on V Australia, not domestic DJ as possibly alluded to in an above post.

2 for 1 can be obtained for domestic fares with the Virgin Money Visa, on 4 segments per year. This can be for disc Y, Flexi Y or PE/J.

In fact, I think I will combine this benefit (by getting Flexi fares) with my 4 platinum upgrades. I can get a Flexi fare to Perth for $787 return. Then that becomes for two people with the 2-for-1 deal, and the 4 segment upgrades put us both in business. That would normally be nearly $5600 return - bugger using points when I can pay $787 for two return in J to Perth! Even factoring in the cost of the annual fee for the card, it's not much over $1k - plus I'll earn 8853 Velocity points for the flights (1.25 points per $1 on the card + 10 points per $1 on the flights).
 
4 return J tickets Syd - Perth all up for $1,345.00 + 55200 points.

4 return tickets = 8 sectors at $1,399 each = $11,192.00

$11,192.00 - $1,345.00 = $9,847 / 55200 = 17.8c per point.


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Yep, that's a good one, which I intend to use. I had hoped you'd come up with another route though. Did you get the limo to and from the airport as well?

** boggle **

Is this real J yet or VA's weird crossover of PE/J?

As far as I understand it, Virgin commenced proper J last week from MEL, SYD & BNE to PER - A330 from SYD and 737 from MEL & BNE.

As someone who would never pay for 4 return J flights most of the things you have highlighted are irrelevant to me.

Still earn points on pay part, not sure how this is split up between the 4 of us. CC points will still earn.

In comparison to saver fares there isn't much in it for lost points. Lost SC's won't make a difference either as I will still requal Gold but nowhere near Platinum.

As someone without status or lounge access who would also never pay for J, I agree.

Are you sure you still ear points on the pay part? If that's the case, it's great - I wasn't aware of that.
 
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