When is fraud, not fraud? [Car rental charges after return]

[nutwood]

I agree that errors against the person are more common than against the company (talking rental cars here), I suspect that is due to the nature of the transactions. Basically the set fee is exactly that, and it is add-ons like extra time or mileage that cause overcharging. There simply is no mechanism for you to be given money if you return cars early, nor if you do less than X kilometres. Hence errors in your favour are prevented by nature of the business.

I have had a couple of errors in my favour with car rentals - always involving a one-way fee not being added. This is one of the very few errors that can occur in one's favour.

I can see the point you are making, however when you think about it, there's lots of errors that can occur in the customers favour. The whole transaction could get lost and never charged. The km's could be incorrectly read in the customers favour. The additional km's might not be charged. The extra day you had the car might not be charged. Logically, this is at least as likely as charging bogus extras. My thought is that the systems are geared to ensure errors don't occur to the detriment of the company, but the same level of care is not taken to protect the customer's interests.

 

[dajop]

Logically, this is at least as likely as charging bogus extras. My thought is that the systems are geared to ensure errors don't occur to the detriment of the company, but the same level of care is not taken to protect the customer's interests.

True, but how often to people come along to public forums, such as this, bragging about how they got away with excess km, or one days less rental? Also, in any event if km were under-reported (or reported as returned eight hours earlier) would anyone really notice, as long as not overcharged? People tend not to take so much notice of the detail if the charge was as expected.

 

[JohnK]

Not really - I find it happens with any business that keeps your credit card, and is especially rife in rental cars (such as this case) and hotels (here, here's a charge for that beer you didn't have from the minibar)

Vigilance is key.

What does reception gain for charging your credit card a beer that you didn't have? Unless of course reception/housekeeping were in on the scam and would benefit directly.

 

[juddles]

...Disagree all you like .....

I will and I do - often with members on this forum whom I respect immensely

.... but judging by this thread and zillion other examples, you'd be in the minority. .....

Again I disagree. Yes, I would be in the minority within a group that enjoy posting about such "scams" and "rip-offs", but amongst the wider travelling population I am not so sure.

If you closely examine such events, the culprit is usually poor or shoddy work, not intentional scamming. (again, am not talking about those overseas places where you get hit with 10,000 bucks of repair bills, etc.) And in the same way many people blame "the government" or some big business for some sin, at the end of the day such organisations are made up of individual people (the workers).

In the OP's event, an incorrect reading was taken of the odometer which resulted in an excess mileage charge. Do you really think that worker, the guy (or gal) who notated that figure, deliberately and cunningly changed the number to a higher figure? Do you think they "got a cut" of the extra charge? (less tax, etc as this is recorded income for the company) Do you really think that the "boss" of whichever car rental agency it was, sits down his staff and instructs them to falsify the records, and tells them how they will split the money they thus steal? Do you think the company manages to get the excess payments out of their accounting and deliver the staff paper bags of cash? And of course to identify these, they run a secondary system whereby they have one set of data for what the real rentals would have been, and another set of the fraudulent extras charged? With of course details of which staff member committed exactly which rip-off, so they could all fairly divide a "bonus"?

Unfortunately, I actually do think that some people would believe this....

 

[drron]

Yes Juddles I do think that at times it is intentional fraud as reviews document the same things happening.my best example is dollar car rentals LAX.The prefilled fuel scam.I emailed the Californian Attorney General about that and they ended up being prosecuted.

 

[juddles]

Yes huddled I do think that at times it is intentional fraud as reviews document the same things happening.my best example is dollar car rentals LAX.The prefilled fuel scam.I emailed the Californian Attorney General about that and they ended up being prosecuted.

This is why I repeatedly emphasize that my opinions in this thread are about Australian rental agencies, and aussie workers. Overseas is a completely different picture.

 

[opusman]

My current bugbear is when the fuel isn't full on collection, but more like 3/4 or 1/2 full. Seems to be happening more and more. "Oh just bring it back 1/2 full" they say. Much harder to bring back a car 1/2 full than full. If you go under they'll sting you, and if you go over they get to keep the free petrol.

 

[TomVexille]

My current bugbear is when the fuel isn't full on collection, but more like 3/4 or 1/2 full. Seems to be happening more and more. "Oh just bring it back 1/2 full" they say. Much harder to bring back a car 1/2 full than full. If you go under they'll sting you, and if you go over they get to keep the free petrol.

Yeah, you have to refuse to accept that vehicle I think.

 

[oz_mark]

What does reception gain for charging your credit card a beer that you didn't have? Unless of course reception/housekeeping were in on the scam and would benefit directly.

Nothing individually - but what lies at the heart of all these issues is procedural issues at the companies involved. Rather than fix their own issues, they turn their issues into the customers issues by making spurious charges on the credit cards,

 

[UP4014]

I disagree. I think that when you are talking the major rental companies, these errors occur due to mistakes or slackness on the part of some employee, not because of any company intent or desire to rip you off. I don't think the average employee in any of these companies would give two hoots if a rental incurred an excess mileage charge or not.

Overseas and small rental companies are a completely different kettle of fish.

Except even the majors in some smaller places are franchise businesses.

WHo is the company in this case?

 

[nutwood]

Except even the majors in some smaller places are franchise businesses.

WHo is the company in this case?

I don't think I'll name names. There's nothing to say it wasn't a genuine mistake. I'm pretty sure it's a franchise though.
My feeling is that the original transposition error was just that. The returned mileage was likely a case of my returning the car late in the day and someone taking it home for the evening before doing the paperwork the next day.
Many times that wouldn't be picked up. If the hirer had only done local miles, there'd be no excess. If they'd gone on a long trip, who's going to worry about a few more km's?
In my instance I was looking because I had a return trip and knew the distance. Even then I might not have pursued it had it not been for the transposition error.

 

[Happy Dude]

I think BAM1748 was asking for a point of difference between the parent company and a franchisee, not the location where this occurred.

If these "errors" are as inadvertent as claimed, despite their relatively high frequency, why wouldn't the company offer a simple explanation to retain the customer's trust? Just leaves a nasty taste, particularly after being made to go the long way.

 

[auriga]

A very recent example, at the Adelaide Hilton, both my colleague and myself got a charge for the mini bar. Should I just believe they are just very error prone???

 

[dajop]

A very recent example, at the Adelaide Hilton, both my colleague and myself got a charge for the mini bar. Should I just believe they are just very error prone???

Could be a procedural problem with readying room for next guest not a deliberate act at defrauding both of you. Not sure if you both checked the mini bar on arrival for missing items, but the most likely (procedural explanation) is that mini-bar wasn't checked for previous guest thoroughly enough and you ended up wearing their charge.

If the minibar was indeed fully replenished, this could point to staff theft (but why?) or another procedural issue and recording and reporting. I highly doubt the hotel systematically charges minibar without a reason for thinking that there this a reason to instigate such charges.

Who was it that said "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"?

 

[JohnK]

My current bugbear is when the fuel isn't full on collection, but more like 3/4 or 1/2 full. Seems to be happening more and more. "Oh just bring it back 1/2 full" they say. Much harder to bring back a car 1/2 full than full. If you go under they'll sting you, and if you go over they get to keep the free petrol.

This was the case with my last rental last month. Fuel gauge under the "Full" line. They came out to inspect and offered $10 discount off rental which I accepted.

 

[drron]

Renting from Avis in NYC the only car they had left had an empty tank-the computer told me it would get just 25 miles.They said return it empty.On return the computer calculated enough fuel for just 2 miles.

 

[docjames]

You win by 23 miles @drron.

 

[oz_mark]

Could be a procedural problem with readying room for next guest not a deliberate act at defrauding both of you. Not sure if you both checked the mini bar on arrival for missing items, but the most likely (procedural explanation) is that mini-bar wasn't checked for previous guest thoroughly enough and you ended up wearing their charge.

If the minibar was indeed fully replenished, this could point to staff theft (but why?) or another procedural issue and recording and reporting. I highly doubt the hotel systematically charges minibar without a reason for thinking that there this a reason to instigate such charges.

Who was it that said "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"?

This is my problem with the whole thing. They have procedural problems that they turn into the customers problem. They should sort their procedures out, not dip into their customers pockets.

 

[nutwood]

This was the case with my last rental last month. Fuel gauge under the "Full" line. They came out to inspect and offered $10 discount off rental which I accepted.

The usual one I get is that you go a few km's down the road and the gauge starts to drop so you know the tank wasn't full when you started but there's nothing you can do about it. I don't blame the hire companies for that one as the culprit is undoubtedly the previous hirer who either only did a short distance or filled up some way from drop-off. Mind you, in some cars, there can be $10 worth of fuel in the top part of the tank before the gauge shows anything. Can but hope the karma gets them!

 

[JohnK]

The usual one I get is that you go a few km's down the road and the gauge starts to drop so you know the tank wasn't full when you started but there's nothing you can do about it. I don't blame the hire companies for that one as the culprit is undoubtedly the previous hirer who either only did a short distance or filled up some way from drop-off. Mind you, in some cars, there can be $10 worth of fuel in the top part of the tank before the gauge shows anything. Can but hope the karma gets them!

That's a funny coincidence. I've driven down the road and the fuel gauge has gone below "Full". I've called them and they've added a $5-$10 discount.

One of the biggest issues is being allowed to fill up 15-20kms from the place to return the vehicle. It could possibly be another 1-2 litres by the time you drop off the car.

The other one is staff taking the car from one location to another such as the various BNE franchises and not filling up after dropping car off.

And in the remote franchises do staff take car home or to go shopping?