Where are ex-QF staff working now?

[jb747]

The Project just had a story on some Qantas A380 pilots who are now carrying passengers on.. busses in Sydney! Was quite interesting and emotional. Should be able to catch it on 10play shortly.

Thank you for that reference. Very sad. I know them both. I've flown with one, and been checked by the other. Peter was a real driving force behind the training on the A380 (and was overall head of training at one point).

 

[TheInsider]

Does anybody have an insight on what the redundancy entitlements are? And is it different for Voluntary v Forced (I'd assume so). Wonder how it compares to state government minimum entitlements (for those under the high salary threshold).

VR/CR for ASU based staff - so office, airports (above the wing), call centres, are based on the same payment form CR/VR, and it's quite basic payouts.

 

[GSP]

VR/CR for ASU based staff - so office, airports (above the wing), call centres, are based on the same payment form CR/VR, and it's quite basic payouts.

View attachment 231660

Quite generous. I'm assuming the "In lieu of notice" is either 4 or 6 weeks and there will be an additional week if over 45 probably as well. With the favorable tax treatment and including entitlements, it would be quite advantageous for a relatively long term employee (which quite a few are).

 

[Melburnian1]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3744955512183923

...Featured the A380 Captain who delivered VH-OQA, clearly in all sorts

Given that no one yet knows what demand will be like for either domestic or international flying in a year's time, or two, or three (although there's predictions flying around) should QFi for argument's sake have to take back staff who'd been retrenched, or who had voluntarily left/wanted to do so, how does it (and other airlines) rehire?

Those with the most seniority receive the first calls as in 'Pete, will you consider returning?' or is some other method likely to be employed?

Not exactly a seller's market for labour.

 

[Melburnian1]

Quite generous. I'm assuming the "In lieu of notice" is either 4 or 6 weeks and there will be an additional week if over 45 probably as well. With the favorable tax treatment and including entitlements, it would be quite advantageous for a relatively long term employee (which quite a few are).

I can't agree, as comparing it to an occasion when this occurred to me, the payout for my years of service was a far greater number of weeks.

TheInsider's comment that it's 'quite basic' seems accurate.

 

[milehighclub]

TheInsider's comment that it's 'quite basic' seems accurate.

But you can only see a snippet of that document. There is more to the CR payments for employees who have been there a long time.

 

[Melburnian1]

But you can only see a snippet of that document. There is more to the CR payments for employees who have been there a long time.

Fair point, although I was referring to under five years' service and comparing it.

 

[TheInsider]

But you can only see a snippet of that document. There is more to the CR payments for employees who have been there a long time.

Not too many that it would apply to:

 

[Pushka]

Not a Qantas EX but my Doctors husband who used to pilot International Qantas is doing two weeks on and two weeks off now flying domestic.

 

[jb747]

Given that no one yet knows what demand will be like for either domestic or international flying in a year's time, or two, or three (although there's predictions flying around) should QFi for argument's sake have to take back staff who'd been retrenched, or who had voluntarily left/wanted to do so, how does it (and other airlines) rehire?

Those with the most seniority receive the first calls as in 'Pete, will you consider returning?' or is some other method likely to be employed?

Not exactly a seller's market for labour.

None of these pilots have been laid off/retrenched. The company has simply stood them down. Whilst everyone knows that many, if not most, will never be needed again, at this point stand downs avoid having to make any termination payments to them whatsoever. Basically, they’re in limbo, with no roadmap out of it.

Not a Qantas EX but my Doctors husband who used to pilot International Qantas is doing two weeks on and two weeks off now flying domestic.

That’s simply the normal movement from the large aircraft all pilots are initially hired on to, and the 737, for promotions. There‘s no line between international and domestic pilots in QF, it’s simply a function of where the aircraft you’re on flies to.

 

[Pushka]

None of these pilots have been laid off/retrenched. The company has simply stood them down. Whilst everyone knows that many, if not most, will never be needed again, at this point stand downs avoid having to make any termination payments to them whatsoever. Basically, they’re in limbo, with no roadmap out of it.



That’s simply the normal movement from the large aircraft all pilots are initially hired on to, and the 737, for promotions. There‘s no line between international and domestic pilots in QF, it’s simply a function of where the aircraft you’re on flies to.

Yes, but Instead of a full roster he has been cut to half. He is just pleased to be flying again.

 

[jb747]

Yes, but Instead of a full roster he has been cut to half. He is just pleased to be flying again.

These days, half is little piggie territory.

 

[GSP]

I can't agree, as comparing it to an occasion when this occurred to me, the payout for my years of service was a far greater number of weeks.

TheInsider's comment that it's 'quite basic' seems accurate.

Then I'd suggest you were on an extremely generous package. And "quite basic" I'd attribute to the relevant state awards. A lot of packages I've seen that aren't state awards are more than state award but less than what is described by the Qantas terms.

The point JB747 makes about being stood down with no packages being offered is less than ideal however, unless that increases the Years of service as I do note it is pro-rata rather than completed years - another more than generous allowance.

 

[RAM]

None of these pilots have been laid off/retrenched. The company has simply stood them down. Whilst everyone knows that many, if not most, will never be needed again, at this point stand downs avoid having to make any termination payments to them whatsoever. Basically, they’re in limbo, with no roadmap out of it.

Standing down at reduced pay is often a tactic used to force people into financial distress while waiting to be made redundant. If, as I suspect, all the 18,000 currently stood down workers (figure mentioned at AGM) are only receiving JobKeeper (now $550/wk since Sept 28th) then that will represent 1/4 to 1/3rd what they previously were paid.

<<Would be useful data point to know what stood down workers are getting? JobKeeper only or JK+extra>>

As month 4/5/6 of being stood down passes - many Q staff will be or approaching or in financial distress - as all the banks are now looking at all mortgages & loans where repayments have paused. Given school/university fees, power, rates, private health, car/house/life insurance premiums have continued to be charged in full - Q's apparent cash saving strategy to avoid going into administration will be biting on staff.

This may force Q staff, who cannot hold out any longer for voluntary redundancy, to resign if they can land any full time job (if the new job does not provide enough to cover their accumulated additional debts). Q then saves on the redundancy payout.

For some AFFers who are ex-Q, currently Q or know Q staff - encourage them to start making a noise & contact their either Federal Member or Federal Senators as well as the potentially one of the TV channels (The Project piece recently may show some sympathy from Ch10, given it is US owned!).

Off the top of my head I cannot remember which 'authority' is the relevant one to contact but as Q publicly stated all of the 6,000 redundancies would be completed by the end of September - and perhaps not even 1/4 have been - then Q appears not to be meeting its listing requirements for 'Continuous Disclosure' as the $600m estimated cost is a 'material amount'.

 

[milehighclub]

<<Would be useful data point to know what stood down workers are getting? JobKeeper only or JK+extra>>

Stood down employees get JK + what they earn at their secondary employment.

This may force Q staff, who cannot hold out any longer for voluntary redundancy, to resign if they can land any full time job

No need to resign. Why would you. Everyone is allowed to and for the most part gained secondary employment. I don't know what the future hold for me, but leaving now gets me no payout. I can work in the meantime and if my time does become up, I'd get a payout. But they will always chase VR first because QF will not want to rid itself of its cheaper workforce that it will need in the future.

 

[NM]

Is there a time limit an employee can be "stood down" before they must be returned to the work force or made redundant?

If a stood down employee does find full-time work elsewhere while stood down, are they required to resign from their standing-down employer or can they choose to return to their original employer when asked to return to work (resigning from the new job)? If so, then they may still be able to get a redundancy package if the original employer eventually determines they no longer have work for them. Which of course leads back to my first question.

 

[milehighclub]

If a stood down employee does find full-time work elsewhere while stood down, are they required to resign from their standing-down employer or can they choose to return to their original employer when asked to return to work (resigning from the new job)? If so, then they may still be able to get a redundancy package if the original employer eventually determines they no longer have work for them. Which of course leads back to my first question.

Anyone stood down from their current employer can obtain alternate work. If the original employer requires them back at work, because there is some, the employee would have to choose to either leave where they were working to return to their original employer or resign, without any payments except leave etc.

QF has been more than accommodating and has provided another option to take special leave without pay. This allows employees to still remain employees but not run the risk of having to make a decision should they be called upon earlier than they planned, and allow them to remain at their other employer until it might be more suitable to return to QF. Some have made year long commitments in other industries, and can decide then if they wish to return. Leave balances have to be reduced to a certain number first before this is allowed.

QF also has been offering a lot of its work on a voluntary basis. This means they don't have to force anyone to come back to work who may have to quit another job, only for the sake of perhaps a month or two of work.

As for how long - I'm not really sure, but I am prepared this is going to be for a while.

In the UK, the cabin crew were offered VR or 2 years LWOP.

 

[RAM]

No need to resign. Why would you. Everyone is allowed to and for the most part gained secondary employment. I don't know what the future hold for me, but leaving now gets me no payout. I can work in the meantime and if my time does become up, I'd get a payout. But they will always chase VR first because QF will not want to rid itself of its cheaper workforce that it will need in the future.

Thank you for that information (JK only)!

If someone has gone through their cash reserves & been unable to get a job then resigning enables them to cash out their accumulated annual & long service leave (if any).

Sad state of affairs - most households have less than $2k in savings (pre-CV surveys).

 

[milehighclub]

If someone has gone through their cash reserves & been unable to get a job then resigning enables them to cash out their accumulated annual & long service leave (if any).

Anyone who has leave can access that as well.

But JK can be used by the company to pay your leave. So if your leave for example was worth $2000 for the fortnight, you only get $2000 not $2000 + JK so this is why many are trying to avoid using it now and saving it for when JK finishes.

 

[RAM]

Anyone who has leave can access that as well.

But JK can be used by the company to pay your leave. So if your leave for example was worth $2000 for the fortnight, you only get $2000 not $2000 + JK so this is why many are trying to avoid using it now and saving it for when JK finishes.

Thanks for that new detail. It just gets worse not only the gnawing uncertainty but the "Heads they win, tails I lose" bias of the system.