Who is responsible for my non-refundable hotel if the only flight is cancelled by Qantas

[MEL_Traveller]

Unfortunately the travel regulations are not as strong as they are in other parts of the world. In the UK if you buy flights and accommodation together the travel agent would be responsible for refunding 100%. KI is booming these days and their refund policies refect that. I would approach them again with a view to placing your reservation into credit to be used at a later date. Good luck

I would hope the same applied here! If you bought a package including flights and accommodation you’d expect the whole thing to be refunded if you couldn’t take your trip.

 

[Alucard19]

I would hope the same applied here! If you bought a package including flights and accommodation you’d expect the whole thing to be refunded if you couldn’t take your trip.

I agree check with AFTA I'm new to travel in Aus and not 100% sure of the regulations

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree check with AFTA I'm new to travel in Aus and not 100% sure of the regulations

That wouldn’t be an AFTA thing, that would be standard consumer protection laws… not receiving a product or service.

 

[JohnK]

On Qantas with no other airline involved? It's likely that you will be okay, as if Qantas cancels they will normally transfer you to another flight, however it could be a few days either side of the original one so you should try to be flexible with your dates (i.e. book flexible accommodation rates), as discussed in this thread. You might also get downgraded to economy if your booking is in business class, with no recourse other than a refund of the points difference.

But this was my whole point. This is Qantas economy for the 3 of us.

I will book non-refundable flight BKK-CNX that evening. I may now book a hotel for 1 night and travel next morning but even that comes with issues.

I will have a car booked in CNX. These are usually refundable ~24-48 hours before pick up but that would mean cancelling and then making a new booking which will be more expensive and they may also not have availability of the car I want.

I never used to have these worries but it's now reality with fewer flights scheduled and the ones that do operate are very full. Can we put the first 2-3 days of the holiday on hold in case there are issues?

 

[RichardMEL]

re the OP's situation. To me this is basically a situation of separate bookings - even though they have an implied relationship, the reality is that they don't (if the situation were booked as a package deal. as others have mentioned in the thread, then it would be different). Basically pax is responsible.

Someone else already suggested just calling the hotel and outlining the situation - that's the obvious course of action here with advance notice. Specially if intent is to move to the next day then the accom would still be required and I am sure the hotel would be happy to move the booing, if there's availability. I was a bit unclear if this is the case though (that a new flight would be taken or not).

Anyway though to me this is like booking separate flights where the "connection" is per the customer's own definition of risk. Another example is the situation you sometimes hear of people flying into a port to meet a cruise ship, and perhaps being delayed (or cxl) on the morning of and missing that cruise departure.... the airline isn't responsible for this, and neither is the cruise (or in the case of the OP, the hotel on KI). When we book separate things like this they are independent evets and one isn't interested or required to be responsible for the other. This is why travel insurance can be a very useful thing (of course we take the risk that insurance is never used and we've paid for that).

I probably seem harsh on this one, but in this situation where well over a month's notice of a flight cancel is given as well, that the airline has zero responsibility for anything beyond their flight. If they've cancelled the flight then they can provide the next avail flight, or offer a refund and that's the extent of their obligation here imo. I know some will disagree with this, and that's fine, but again, this is what insurance is for. By the same token, it's not on the hotel how one gets there - their obligation is to have a room per the booking. If it's a nonref rate, then one's at the discretion of the hotel as to how they handle this - in most cases I am certain common sense would apply - specially in a place like KI where this probably happens more than one would hope, and they'd know this. I can imagine there'd be little sympathy in say MEL or SYD for the same situation.


I'm not entirely sure even how various consumer protection laws would cover this kind of situation - they've never been intended as an insurance system imo and again, if QF offers a refund or next avail flight (and remember this is well ahead of departure) the they probably meet the obligation under most protection laws (the EU261's of this world). Additionally, the hotel stay is probably aso not covered if under a separate booking because of it being a separate booking. I'm happy to be proven wrong of course, but I'd find it highly unlikely most consumer protection laws would be much help in this situation.

Anyway hopefully something's been sorted out for the OP that satisfies.

 

[RB]

But this was my whole point. This is Qantas economy for the 3 of us.

I will book non-refundable flight BKK-CNX that evening. I may now book a hotel for 1 night and travel next morning but even that comes with issues.

I will have a car booked in CNX. These are usually refundable ~24-48 hours before pick up but that would mean cancelling and then making a new booking which will be more expensive and they may also not have availability of the car I want.

I never used to have these worries but it's now reality with fewer flights scheduled and the ones that do operate are very full. Can we put the first 2-3 days of the holiday on hold in case there are issues?

Similar thoughts that some regional people have always faced?

 

[justin23]

Trying to understand if the OP is trying to cancel the whole trip or just get a nights refund?

I'm not sure how long the OP was going to KI for , but I spent 3 nights there last year and wish I had longer. I also ried to book the Mecure at American River and kind of glad it had no availability for my trip. It was kind of out of the way and didn't look great when I drove past it.

If it was me, I'd be trying to either:

1. Still fly to Adelaide and catch the bus/ferry to Penneshaw and pick up the hire car there. If the OP hadn't arranged a hire car, then they really should, I couldn't imagine enjoying the island without any car to drive around with.
2. Fly the next day and just ask the hotel to ammend the dates and see if they'll refund a night.
3. reschedule completely for another time and see if the hotel will move your booking.

Some other tips always worth noting as I'm going through planning a trip to South Africa and Namibia is understanding the flights between two points. If there is only a single flight between two places, I'd always book refundable accomodation. If its well serviced its less of an issue, but you wouldn't want to book the last flight of the day if you need to be at the destination that night also without any contingency plans. But that said some of the places i'm looking at are $60 a night, so i can live with that. Less so in more expensive countries.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not entirely sure even how various consumer protection laws would cover this kind of situation - they've never been intended as an insurance system imo and again, if QF offers a refund or next avail flight (and remember this is well ahead of departure) the they probably meet the obligation under most protection laws (the EU261's of this world). Additionally, the hotel stay is probably aso not covered if under a separate booking because of it being a separate booking. I'm happy to be proven wrong of course, but I'd find it highly unlikely most consumer protection laws would be much help in this situation.

Anyway hopefully something's been sorted out for the OP that satisfies.

EU261 is a quasi insurance/enforcement of contract. Without the need to go to court.

In the OP’s case this is a cancellation way in advance. As others have said there might be options to get to KI another way, or fly the day after (losing one night’s accommodation only).

If this had been bought as a package of course it would have been fully covered.

 

[serfty]

EU261 is a quasi insurance/enforcement of contract. Without the need to go to court.

In the OP’s case this is a cancellation way in advance. As others have said there might be options to get to KI another way, or fly the day after (losing one night’s accommodation only).

If this had been bought as a package of course it would have been fully covered.

Actually all "way in advance", i.e. more than two weeks means in relation to EU261 is there is no mandated compensation.

If Qantas in this instance had to comply with EU261 then the following would be applicable:

---

Article 5

Cancellation

1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and

(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
...
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.

3. ...
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.

---

Article 8

Right to reimbursement or re-routing

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.

3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

---

Article 9
Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

---

EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So essentially a rerouting, which in this case is not possible given QF is the only carrier? It would be to fly a day later, or a day earlier. And if the passenger was not originating in ADL, a night’s accommodation might be applicable if the passenger had to overnight.

 

[TheInsider]

Not having a go at you as I love your contributions but the above is simply not true.

The airline conditions of carriage are woeful

- We do not guarantee to get you to your destination for the time you booked but if you miss checkin cut-off you lose your flight

So if I book to fly to KGI on 29/Apr/23 and all flights on following days are full and the only flight on 29/Apr/23 is cancelled when is the airline obliged to get me to KGI? Just offer full refund and everything will be OK right?

I just had a really silly thought that is going to stress me until travel. Booked 3 award seats for family SYD-BKK on 25 December. All flights around those dates are full already or ridiculously priced. What if QF cancels that flight ~4 weeks from travel? I'm screwed right?

There's something in all of this business that does not make sense and it's not me.

Cancellations to flights are within >72hrs, schedule changes are <72hrs out.
If you flight is cancelled inside the 72 hours then rebooked on the the next available flight (which Qantas will say Qantas, but realsitcally they will rebook onto nearly all other carriers with different routing. They would also provide accommodation.

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

www.qantas.com

Changes outside the 72 hours, then you would still highly likely booked on the next available flight, but carrier options may be less varied.

Qantas is actually very good at disruption handling and using various carriers and routings, when there are misconnects or cancellations/delays on the day.

Conditions of carriage are all similar, no matter what airline you look at.

 

[TheInsider]

So essentially a rerouting, which in this case is not possible given QF is the only carrier? It would be to fly a day later, or a day earlier. And if the passenger was not originating in ADL, a night’s accommodation magistrate be applicable if the passenger had to overnight.

No accommodation given, unless it's a delay/cancellation on the 'day'.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No accommodation given, unless it's a delay/cancellation on the 'day'.

That was in response to Serfty’s post ‘if’ EU 261 was to apply in Australia. Not much difference to what we have, except for the extra night’s accommodation, even if cancelled outside 14 days (ie duty of care).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Cancellations to flights are within >72hrs, schedule changes are <72hrs out.
If you flight is cancelled inside the 72 hours then rebooked on the the next available flight (which Qantas will say Qantas, but realsitcally they will rebook onto nearly all other carriers with different routing. They would also provide accommodation.

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

www.qantas.com

Changes outside the 72 hours, then you would still highly likely booked on the next available flight, but carrier options may be less varied.

Qantas is actually very good at disruption handling and using various carriers and routings, when there are misconnects or cancellations/delays on the day.

Conditions of carriage are all similar, no matter what airline you look at.

Changes outside 72 hours too are required to offer routing in the next available flight, or refund. At discretion of the customer.

Agree QF is very good at handling disruptions… but that’s only if holding a QF issued ticket, or you get to the airport.

My flight was disrupted 2 hours prior to departure and two calls to the call centre, including the special ‘1300’ number told me I would not be flying that day unless I contacted the partner airline’s FF program to get the ticket reissued…. even though the partner airline had long call hold times and and their FF desk was closed.

Neither call mentioned I could go to the airport to sort it out.