Who Really Owns Frequent Flyer Points ?

[John Youngman]

Who Really Owns Frequent Flyer Points ?

The answer clearly is " we the frequent flyers". The cost to the airline is calculated in the price we pay for our air tickets, or in the cost to us of the goods we buy using the Amex or other cards. More often than not we pay a surcharge to the merchant for the privelege of using the card to earn points, and the card issuer pays the airline.

Yet Qantas acts as though it owns the points and clearly finds it in it's interests to make their redemption near to impossible. Little wonder they value the FF business at some hundred million dollars. It's all income and no cost. A classic racket !

The most cynical example I have seen was in a letter to SMH this Saturday by a lady who booked a trip to France with her husband on points. Sadly her husband died before the trip and she called QF to inform them of his death and ask that her husband's points credit be passed to her son so that he could make the trip in his place. The response was "thanks for letting us know. Points are not transferrable; we will therefore delete his account"

Frequent flyers should join to lobby the government to regulate the frequent flyer industry and recognize FF property rights. FF points should be freely transferrable -- as they are in the US and UK -- and airlines should be required to provide a minimum number of FF seats on each flight.

John Youngman

 

[MelUser]

The moral of that story is not to tell QF that a member has died. One should get into the relative's account transfer out 100 000 points and then book rest as reward travel. Fine print is clear - upon death everything terminates - QFF account, all points, any remaining status stuff, any remaining Q Club membership etc etc.

 

[Dave Noble]

Why should they have to be regulated on something which they give for free?

The airlines do make seats available for redemption bookings, however flexibility is required especially for popular routes; some routes there is absolutely no problem getting award seats

QFs terms and conditions do state that points lapse on death and this is a term which is agreed to when signing up

AAs terms and conditions ( which is a US carrier ) does state

Except as otherwise explained below, mileage credit is not transferable and may not be combined among AAdvantage members, their estates, successors and assigns. Accrued mileage credit and award tickets do not constitute property of the member. Neither accrued mileage, nor award tickets, nor upgrades are transferable by the member (i) upon death, (ii) as part of a domestic relations matter, or (iii) otherwise by operation of law.

Points are not freely transferrable in the US either and AAs, for example, is more restrictive that QFs in the ability to transfer miles in that there is a much lower limit on number of miles which can be transferred per year plus there is quite a high feee for doing so ( e.g. USD150 to transfer 15,000 miles)

Dave

 

[NM]

Membership of the Qantas Frequent Flyer program is optional. If you don't like or agree with the published terms and conditions, then don't join the program.

Frequent flyers should join to lobby the government to regulate the frequent flyer industry and recognize FF property rights. FF points should be freely transferrable -- as they are in the US and UK -- and airlines should be required to provide a minimum number of FF seats on each flight.

Are you certain of those facts? The points/miles in my account for a US bsed FF programme are actually less transferable than QF FF points. Qantas allows you to transfer 100,000 points per year to the account of an eligible family member. AA allows you to share up to 60,000 miles per year with family members, and to gift up to 40,000 miles per year to anyone. An AA membership account is terminated upon the death of the member with the cancellation of all miles and benefits - just the same as with QF.

BA has the concept of a "Household Account" for up to 7 family members residing at the same address. However, I believe this is quite unique in terms of FF programs, and really just provides a means of pooling up to 7 family member's miles balances for the purpose of redeeming awards. BA does have the same rules about account termination upon the death of the member.

So just what "freely transferrable" conditions apply to the "US and UK" programs you reference?

Also, do you have any statistics on just how many FF award seats Qantas allocates on various flights? What minimum level of FF seats do you believe the government should regulate? How does that compare with the average number of FF award seats that Qantas offers now?

By the way, I believe the Qantas FF program does not represent good value for me based on my travel patterns. So I found a program that I believe provides better benefits to me than Qantas FF, and I now book all my eligible flights to that program and not to QF. Membership of QF FF is optional and voluntary - if it does not work for you then look for a program that works better and use it.

 

[steve0123]

I understand why a few people are defending Qantas - I sort of like them too when they aren't screwing me over - but the arguments presented thus far to justify their policy on post-humous points transfers overlook one very important point. A lot of QFF's deliberately go out of their way to book with Qantas, and will choose Qantas (or a Oneworld partner) over another airline out of loyalty to QF and to accrue points, even if the ticket is more expensive. In a way, they are "buying" the points. Why shouldn't they be considered a part of the deceased's estate if the deceased owned those points during life?

Oh - I've just realised that I've let myself in for a bashing: when I say that someone "buys points", I realise that what they are actually buying is a ticket for travel which has certain benefits attached (ie: points), but surely nobody can deny that the cost of the FF scheme is really worked into the fare structure... And I know what the fineprint says, I just think that it's one of those clauses that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny as just and fair...

 

[simongr]

I think people are not so much defending QF as commenting on the comparison of QF vs. other programs.

I too switched from QF to another program - the best move I have made. I book flights within oneworld based on my enjoyment/convenience of the carrier rather than the FF benefits.

S