Who should take precendence - terms and conditions ambiguous

[Evan]

The person with an FF redemption ticket issued in X (economy cabin) has agreed at the time of "purchasing" the ticket to travel in the economy cabin. The fare rules associated with an award redemption ticket do not allow for waitlisting for a higher cabin nor for FF award upgrades. So I see no reason that the FF redeemer has any claim on an unsold business class seat nor any reason to be considered for an upgrade ahead of any passenger who has purchased an upgradeable ticket and has waitlisted for a points upgrade.

I agree with NM on this, but sure i can agree with everybody else on the logic that should be applied, but logic is not what we are dealing here with, we are dealing with the rules as they are writen today.

E

 

[AnonymousCoward]

The person with an FF redemption ticket issued in X (economy cabin) has agreed at the time of "purchasing" the ticket to travel in the economy cabin. The fare rules associated with an award redemption ticket do not allow for waitlisting for a higher cabin nor for FF award upgrades.

That's certainly true. But I think a fair few people here are saying that it is, perhaps, "unfair" for QANTAS to take points for an F or J class, but seat the person in Y.

Futhermore there doesn't even seem to be an option to be considered for a spare J/F seat if it turns out that QANTAS hasn't sold enough and is making them available for upgrades (regardless of hypothetically where you might be in the priority order).

And lastly, the unfairness might be compounded by a perception of QANTAS double-dipping. Firstly by charging PersonA for an F award but seating them in Y, and then charging PersonB for a Y->J upgrade, for a spare J seat.

 

[JohnK]

The person with an FF redemption ticket issued in X (economy cabin) has agreed at the time of "purchasing" the ticket to travel in the economy cabin.

Yes the redeemer has accepted to be in WHY but why does Qantas charge the F award rate for the full trip? Surely there is something wrong with the terms and conditions which I, and others, feel are wrong in this case and do not appear to be logical.

The fare rules associated with an award redemption ticket do not allow for waitlisting for a higher cabin nor for FF award upgrades.

I was not quoting terms and conditions or fare rules. I was simply stating my opinion on what I feel would be the right thing to happen in this situation.

I see nothing wrong with placing someone at the top of the FF upgrade waitilst if they have been charged full F award FF points for the entire trip and there was no F availability on more than one leg. In this case the next lowest cabin to F was not available so they are sitting in WHY which is 2 classes lower than the FF points charged for the award redemption.

In my opinion just because it is in the terms and conditions does not make someone requesting a Y->J upgrade on the same flight more worthy. Did someone post something about having your cake and eating too?

 

[Dave Noble]

Yes the redeemer has accepted to be in WHY but why does Qantas charge the F award rate for the full trip? Surely there is something wrong with the terms and conditions which I, and others, feel are wrong in this case and do not appear to be logical.

No one is forced to make the purchase. If the person agrees to purchase a mixed class booking and pays the higher rate, that is their choice in making the purchase

if availability appears, then they may be able to make the change.

I see nothing wrong or illogical

If you don't want to pay premium rates to travel part way in economy, then don't make the booking

Dave

 

[Adelaide_Matthew]

No one is forced to make the purchase. If the person agrees to purchase a mixed class booking and pays the higher rate, that is their choice in making the purchase

This is all true, but I can't help thinking that there is a missed opportunity here for QF. Imagine how happy the OP would be if yield management made additional award seats available on that flight - instead of a thread here attracting sympathy about how strictly QF applies their rules, the thread could have been about how valued the OP felt, which would not only have made the OP happy, but would have been generally positive advertising.

Not that it could happen in all flights, so yield management would have to make a decision in each case, but I do think QF sometimes probably don't make the most of their opportunities to do the little extra things that would earn them kudos and loyalty (at little or no cost if the seat ends up flying empty).

Put simply, loyalty = money for QF in the medium and long run. If they can get loyalty cheaply, they would be well advised to chase it.

 

[NM]

As Dave rightly says, Qantas does offer the option to book and pay for different classes. They are one of the few FF programs that offers one-way redemptions, which was one of the promoted benefits of the last round of major enhancements. So the member is able to book the different components in different classes if desired. But if booking separate redemptions, the fuel fines are charged per segment and not at the discounted rate for a through flight to Europe.

Now how about this hypothetical situation:

FF member books a round trip redemption at the F rate, with a mixture of F where available and J when only 2-class flights are available. As an example, say 3 of the flights are in F and 4 of the flights are in J. All booked and tickets issued. Member is happy to pay the F rate as 70% of the journey will be in F and 30% in J.

Then a few months later, say one of the operating airlines (a partner airline not the member's FF program operator) decides to remove F from one of the routes, resulting in a re-issue of the ticket into J for that sector. Now the journey will be less than 40% in F and more than 60% in J.

Now its too late to rebook the entire journey in J as there is no availability for J awards on the remaining F segments and no possible re-route with award seats available for a month either side of the travel dates. F award has cost 100K more points than a J award for the same route.

An unfortunately situation and a risk when booking FF redemptions 11 months out. But nought can be done except to accept the lack of F on the segment and look forward to travelling in J.

The difference with the example I mention is that the member made the booking for F and paid for F and had the ticket issued for F and now has to travel in J. The OP of this thread made the booking for some segments in Y and had the ticket issued for that cabin. Availability of J seats is not relevant. If there is availability if U seats then they can cancel and rebook, remembering that U does not permit waitlisting.

What about a passenger who has purchased a OneWorld Explorer such as DONE4. The rules say that if no D is available, then it books into L. It is quite possible that a flight may have J for sale but no D and the passenger remains in the economy cabin. In this case the pax has paid for a business class fare and its quite possible there will be empty business class seats. But no D for sale. Its even possible the pax could waitlist for a FF points upgrade which may clear even though there is no D available.