Why can’t QF codeshare with AA on transatlantic flights to cater for the West AUS <> East USA market?

[RSVKanga]

If you live in Perth and want to travel to the east coast of the US (or even cities like Chicago), Middle Eastern airlines have a big advantage in offering one stop via DOH or DXB to cities like BOS, PHL, JFK, MIA, ORD and CLT. If you want to travel to those destinations with QF/AA, it would take you 2 stops via the east coast of Australia and another US hub.

But there is a very simple solution available to QF in order to significantly increase their market share on the Perth<>East USA market. Qantas flies their metal from Perth to London, Paris and Rome, so if Qantas codeshares on AA flights from LHR/CDG/FCO to JFK/ORD/CLT/BOS/PHL/MIA, won’t this be another competitive one stop alternative for PER passengers flying to the eastern USA?

So why aren’t QF considering this? Is there any significant regulatory hurdle?

With Perth being Australia's 4th largest city and PER airport set to be the largest QF base outside of Sydney, it's about time the QF/AA partnership targeted people living in WA as well and it's also time that ME carriers are given a run for their money on their near monopoly on the PER <> east USA market.

 

[elanshin]

I'd seriously doubt there's enough corporate demand to drive the PER - JFK.

If its leisure travel, US is soft on demand right now.
I suspect they would also rather drive their traffic through their current sluggish demand from the east coast which is on QF metal only.

Also you can one hop via HKG/SIN as well. Middle east isn't QF's only competition.

 

[RSVKanga]

I suspect they would also rather drive their traffic through their current sluggish demand from the east coast which is on QF metal only.

Qantas does not fly to BOS, PHL, ORD, MIA or CLT. Also, to get from Perth to JFK on purely QF metal, you'd have to fly PER-SYD-AKL-JFK (or through MEL/BNE instead of SYD), and that's not really ideal when you consider the other options PER travellers have. AA is crucial and their JV means QF gets a fraction of the $ on AA flights booked on a QF number.

So I don't see why directing PER<>east USA traffic to stop in QF's European destinations before connecting to AA codeshare won't be beneficial for QF and its customers

 

[madrooster]

So I don't see why directing PER<>east USA traffic to stop in QF's European destinations before connecting to AA codeshare won't be beneficial for QF and its customers

QF already offer fares that allow you to go PER-SIN-LHR-EU-LHR-US-LAX/DFW/JFK-SYD/BNE/MEL-PER. The catch is you need to go via the pacific in one direction, but you don't have to go that way in both directions.

I know this is not the same as via Europe in both directions, but it's halfway there, which is better than other non-ME3 carriers.

AY also offer US via Asia+EU fares too.

 

[SYD]

It is curious that there are no QF trans Atlantic codeshare flights - not even one stop on EK ex PER (the EK arrangement is limited to Europe and North Africa).

 

[Himeno]

It is curious that there are no QF trans Atlantic codeshare flights - not even one stop on EK ex PER (the EK arrangement is limited to Europe and North Africa).

The connecting from QF op flight limitations on most types of codeshare wouldn't make putting QF codes on trans atlantic flights worth it.

 

[RSVKanga]

not even one stop on EK

AA would feel threatened by QF putting its code on EK services to the USA and it would risk the JV as people from SYD, MEL and BNE could also fly to the US via DXB on QF codeshare EK instead of QF/AA. Also QF don't fly to DXB so the whole trip would be only EK metal and QF wouldn't want that.

IMO QF codesharing on AA flights from London, Paris and Rome to their US destinations on the other hand would be a win for both QF and AA and significantly enhance their JV while also offering WA customers a more innovative and competitive choice for travel to the east US.

 

[dajop]

In the not too distant future, QF should be able to offer own metak single stop to JFK, initially via AKL (they have indicated a plan to (re?)commence PER-AKL), and subsequently via SYD.

I'd be trolling to suggest PER-LAX would be in the technical realm of project sunrise as well, albeit not in the commercial realm, although I have seen people suggest equally unlikely offerings.

 

[RSVKanga]

In the not too distant future, QF should be able to offer own metak single stop to JFK, initially via AKL

That would be great for WA travellers going to JFK, but not to other east USA destinations. If you'd want to get to for example Chicago or Philadelphia from PER you'd still have to transit in AKL and clear immigration in JFK and connect to AA.

AA flies to many eastern US ports (PHL, ORD, MIA, BOS etc) from LHR, CDG and FCO and it'll be a one stop connection between QF and AA metal in those European cities for PER customers under a hypothetical transatlantic QF codeshare on AA.

 

[Himeno]

AA flies to many eastern US ports (PHL, ORD, MIA, BOS etc) from LHR, CDG and FCO and it'll be a one stop connection between QF and AA metal in those European cities for PER customers under a hypothetical transatlantic QF codeshare on AA.

They can already do that without a codeshare. QF PER-LHR, AA/BA to North America. A QF codeshare isn't needed for that route.

Maybe QF should reinstate the old Southern Cross and Fiesta SYD-LHR via North America routes of the 60s and 70s.

 

[SYD]

AA would feel threatened by QF putting its code on EK services to the USA and it would risk the JV as people from SYD, MEL and BNE could also fly to the US via DXB on QF codeshare EK instead of QF/AA. Also QF don't fly to DXB so the whole trip would be only EK metal and QF wouldn't want that..

You edited my comment that was specific to ex PER as per your OP.

A ME solution to QF getting you to the US East Coast is probably the most logical. QF even give preferential points and SC earn on QR ex PER v East Coast Oz.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF codeshares, as noted above, usually join a QF operated sector. I am not sure if bilateral agreements forbid doing it on something like LHR-NYC/BOS/wherever on BA, but remember this - codeshares are NOT free. QF has to purchase a set number of seats (or perhaps vwriable, but to some total depending on the specific codeshare agreement, but they pay) - they then need to sell those. Let's ignore the part that they probably wouldn't have rights to sell fares for europe origin to the US (but that also may be part of a problem too) but beyond that, they would want to be sure of actual demand to offer those.

As noted above, QF can still do two stop to JFK via SYD/AKL, and when the 321XLR comes online, and as hinted by QF with the recent announcement, AKL is a possible destination, so opens up THAT connection most likely (though it would have to leave PER mighty early I should think?) I just can't see the demand.

Finally, AA's JV with BA may also get in the way.

The through fares mentioned above basically do the same thing with the exception, of course, of reduced FF/SC earn on the partner flights which is really the only reason one would want a QF code on these sorts of flights, and those that care enough would be a minority of limited demand for this kind of thing I should think.

 

[RSVKanga]

As noted above, QF can still do two stop to JFK via SYD/AKL, and when the 321XLR comes online, and as hinted by QF with the recent announcement, AKL is a possible destination, so opens up THAT connection most likely (though it would have to leave PER mighty early I should think?) I just can't see the demand.

Sure, PER passengers will be able to fly one stop with QF to JFK, but they still won’t be able to fly one stop to other cities (with QF) in the USA that are accessible from BNE, SYD and MEL via one stop in LAX/DFW with the AA JV. PER passengers will still need two stops for cities such as ORD, PHL, MIA etc under the current JV.

As opposed to that, AA fly to many eastern USA ports from LHR, CDG and FCO so I think it could and should be a seamless connection between QF and AA metal in those European cities. One stop, no need for Australian domestic-international transfers, no US immigration in transit cities etc.

 

[dajop]

As opposed to that, AA fly to many eastern USA ports from LHR, CDG and FCO so I think it could and should be a seamless connection between QF and AA metal in those European cities.

I guess, if you can find a good TA, there is a seamless connection between QF and AA in those cities - it''s just that the flights can't be made on QF code all the way. AA flight needs to be on AA code. There are heaps of destinations in Europe that QF codes don't serve as well - they need to be on BA codes.

 

[RSVKanga]

I guess, if you can find a good TA, there is a seamless connection between QF and AA in those cities - it''s just that the flights can't be made on QF code all the way. AA flight needs to be on AA code.

And I think that’s what needs to be changed. Sometimes a TA is too much hassle for many customers and AA code doesn’t give as much points/status benefits as a QF codeshare. I think it would be a popular option if there were seamless QF-AA codeshare connections in Europe offered through mainstream websites like Qantas and Google Flights.

 

[Cognac]

Sure, PER passengers will be able to fly one stop with QF to JFK, but they still won’t be able to fly one stop to other cities (with QF) in the USA that are accessible from BNE, SYD and MEL via one stop in LAX/DFW with the AA JV. PER passengers will still need two stops for cities such as ORD, PHL, MIA etc under the current JV.

Look, I'm from Perth too. I get it. How about we let the dust settle and we see what actually happens with this Western Hub before we start asking for more though?

How would trans-Atlantic QF codeshares actually benefit us?

 

[NM]

A codeshare arrangement is not required for a fare to be available for a specific routing. Mixed carrier fares are common and can be great value, as @madrooster pointed out previously. There is little benefit for passengers to book a codeshare flight over a partner flight, except in cases where the fare class precludes earning in a particular FF program.

 

[dajop]

And I think that’s what needs to be changed. Sometimes a TA is too much hassle for many customers and AA code doesn’t give as much points/status benefits as a QF codeshare. I think it would be a popular option if there were seamless QF-AA codeshare connections in Europe offered through mainstream websites like Qantas and Google Flights.

The cash comes from corporates, with a particular interest in premium cabins. They almost certainly have access to competent TA's who can construct such itineraries. QF probably have bigger fish to fry than a niche of a niche.

 

[justinbrett]

Sure, PER passengers will be able to fly one stop with QF to JFK, but they still won’t be able to fly one stop to other cities (with QF) in the USA that are accessible from BNE, SYD and MEL via one stop in LAX/DFW with the AA JV. PER passengers will still need two stops for cities such as ORD, PHL, MIA etc under the current JV.

As opposed to that, AA fly to many eastern USA ports from LHR, CDG and FCO so I think it could and should be a seamless connection between QF and AA metal in those European cities. One stop, no need for Australian domestic-international transfers, no US immigration in transit cities etc.

Sounds good on paper, but when you crunch the numbers it's not really worth it.

PER-LHR-BOS is 1:39 quicker than PER-SYD-LAX-BOS with current schedules (both QF/AA); however the return is quicker BOS-DFW-MEL-PER by 0:54.

So the return journey is saving you about 45 minutes total going via LHR instead of SYD/MEL. And the latter option gives you many more options to airports without transatlantic service, and more flexibility in the case of disruptions. Cities west of BOS will start to favour via SYD/MEL more as you go further west, with LAX clearly quicker via SYD/MEL.

And finally this is all possible without codeshare. You can book this right now on the QF website:

 

[Daver6]

Maybe since loads are good on the PER-LHR route QF don't feel the need to try fill seats for flight connections to the US. Easier to just send pax via the east coast.