Why fly business? I don't see the value?

[flyman]

Other reasons for this, in respect of my specific flight (ICN-xHKG-SIN) were;

1. the J fare compared to full fare Y was only an extra AUD350
2. the resulting &/SC earning rate was more favourable, full fare Y was ~9.375 per SC, opposed to J which was ~7.1875 per SC
3. Regional Y on CX by all reports isn't the most comfortable
4. My then QPNB status would not grant me lounge access at HKG, important as there are no direct flights available on a *O carrier from ICN-SIN (I need the peace and quiet, I simply can't stand sitting in airport terminals, no matter how big and busy they are)
5. Flying CX J allowed me to reach my goal of achieving QPPS within that qualifying year sooner than expected, plus would earn extra points on the last leg of my trip.
6. The additional cabin and status bonus points I'd earn as a result of hitting QPPS mid trip allowing me to reduce my spend further and book this sector as a one-way YASA.
7. I wanted to catch up on some holiday writing and video editing during those sectors, and even with two batteries for my laptop, and the long stop over in HKG (which I'd planned to visit all three CX lounges in anyway), I knew dammed well I didn't have enough portable juice for the whole trip with no access to power in Regional Y.

.

i didn't understand most of that but am impressed by it anyway - looks like you have turned flight costing analysis into a fine art !

 

[thewinchester]

Quick tip flyman: If you want to respond to multiple posts, there's a little button to the right of the reply with quote link. It allows you to select multiple posts to reply to all at once. Can make reading threads a little easier.

i didn't understand most of that but am impressed by it anyway - looks like you have turned flight costing analysis into a fine art !

I'm happy to explain any of that further if you'd like, let me know specifically what you didn't understand and I'll be happy to explain it further.

As for flight costing being an artform, you don't know the half of it. Looking at the cost of SCs and points per dollar spent is an important one, specially if booking reward flights and specially with Any Seat Award (ASAs) on QF.

The lack of decent flight costing tools, and QF's own useless points calculator lead me to build a steroi_-enhanced spreadsheet for that very purpose.

 

[SamR]

i didn't understand most of that but am impressed by it anyway - looks like you have turned flight costing analysis into a fine art !

I am astonished to find that I did understand all of it. I'm clearly spending too much time here.

 

[thewinchester]

I am astonished to find that I did understand all of it. I'm clearly spending too much time here.

You must be. I made an effort to load that post with as many acronyms and codes as possible to make people go bonkers - obv. wasn't trying hard enough

 

[flyman]

The lack of decent flight costing tools, and QF's own useless points calculator lead me to build a steroi_-enhanced spreadsheet for that very purpose.

great idea although i couldn’t use it myself as it looked too complex for a newbie. i would think there is a significant revenue making opportunity (as a standalone web site product with adverts or as a licensed engine to insert into other travel web site) if you could expand it to account for all credit card rewards / FF programs and make it idiot friendly i.e i input how many points I have on a partifular program (e.g. i collect westpac altitude credit card reward points) and I input a chosen destination/date - then the program spits out a result telling me the most efficient way to use my points to get to my destination (e.g it tells me to convert to krissflyer miles then book a particular flight)

 

[MH_fan]

Once I tasted J, I could never go back. Any trip to Europe or N. America would have to be in J. I'm even imposing that rule on flights to Asia now! My credit card is bracing itself...

 

[Blackadder]

For me it really is a comfort issue, and to arrive more refreshed at my destination thanks to more sleep in a J skybed MKI or II, than I would in the limited recline of whY.
The additional like lounge access, express immigration,priority bags etc make the holiday that more enjoyable for me.

 

[auriga]

I do agree with you, in that I find it quite hard to really justify the "value" of paying so much extra for just a few hours of extra comfort, esp I only travel for leisure.

However, something still make me go for business/first most of the time, maybe it is some psychological problem I have. Maybe it is a kind of addiction, I am not sure. Lucky we are DINKs so we can afford it, but still....

 

[Moopere]

I pay for my own J travel. I am not rich at all so I will travel less so I can afford the higher fare. When I go on holidays, I include the journey as part of the holiday experience. Some people will book a cheaper fare so they can spend more on the hotel or shopping at the destination. For me, the experience will be what I remember when I'm old and in my dotage .

Yep, thats it. The experience. We could fly Y, stay in a caravan park and eat plain slices of bread whilst wearing hessian sacks, but we don't, because though its all we really need if you are able to provide more than the basic necessities of life its sometimes nice and creates a better experience to spend a few bob more and gain that experience.

But its personal perspective I suppose, as others have suggested. If the trip is only incidental, a need to move from A-B, then Y would be enough. I have friends who's focus in travelling is entirely encompassed by the experience of what they will see at their destination, nothing else in important, so, Y flight and youth hostels for them, they are happy and spend more on the 'real world' things that they do. I understand that and have done much the same in years gone by.

 

[TonyHancock]

99% of my travel is paid for by the company I work for, and it has been primarily Y+ since the GFC.

I have had one occasion to fly to the UK this year for personal reasons and as I was paying it was in Y. I really dislike flying Y but I am unable to justify the additional cost in my mind. I can afford it, I can't justify it. Bizarre really. I think it is in my psyche.

Upon landing in MEL I felt a satisfaction that I was $6k better off than I would have been.

As many have said, it is down to the individual. Everyone is different and there is no right or wrong on this subject.

 

[Moody]

You may as well ask why do people in Oz buy BMW cars. They are very expensive, don't hold their value as well as they would like you to believe, and for half the price elsewhere you can get 90% of the value.

Unless you are earning stupid money then I believe the opportunity cost of business class is very hard to justify. For example I have taken the family to the UK 4 times in the last 7 years. If we had chosen to fly business then for the same money/points we would have had 1 trip plus change. Would I sacrifice any of the memories of those trips for a nicer seat/meal/service on the flights? You've got to be kidding.

J is mostly badge value - but that is important to some people and it helps keep economy airfares down, so I'm all for other people having the money, medical problems, and egos that make them fork out for it!

 

[winfred]

I am a high income earner yet I still fly economy because I consider the cost differential between economy and business to be poor value relative to other areas of life e.g I'd rather buy more expensive goods / other services (e.g $6000 saved on a return flight to UK goes along way to eating out or better hotel, kids school fees etc)

Your income may not be high enough then. Would you bother to evaluate the price difference between 2 cheese burgers and a quarter ponder at McDonald's and try to decide if one is better value than the other? I wouldn't as it is not worth my time to consider something so immaterial.

 

[cove]

A couple of rules I apply for travelling on J coast to coast using a JASA with about 45,000 points gleaned from a Visa or MasterCard point a dollar deal.
Rule 1 is never volunteer that information to the person sitting next to you.
Rule 2 is never disclose that those points cost you less than $300 to accumulate.
Travelling in J or F does not have to mean someone has paid the retail price but of course a lot of tickets do get written at high prices.
Coach can cost about $300 going coast to coast so I don't and won't charge a higher cost to our business.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I think it's more about the allocation of your income, rather than the actual level of it. If flying in Y means you can fly more often, and you don't mind trading comfort for frequency, then discount/promo Y is the perfect way to do that. I know of some people with ordinary earnings who insist in J travel, and I also know of someone who is ultra rich, but is only willing to fly in Y despite virtually unlimited income and fly around the globe all the time.

 

[gumpy]

flyman, I know why you're asking these questions. I've asked them to myself as well many times... I know a fair few of the people in the cabin with me are on company money but for those in the cabin with me in J who are self fund I wonder how much money these people make to be able to afford this.

The people that self fund do make a great point that this is where they choose to spend their money as oppose to a car (I burnt 70k on), cameras (I spent 5k on), golf (I burnt at least 3k on just on equipment before membership costs) etc... If I didn't do the above stupid things, the DONE4 is actually quite affordable and would make my flights about 400% more bearable.

Personally unless my income doubles I won't be shelling out on the J tickets (except for the Nan run which I see as 3 holidays in one and is therefore quite cheap) as I prefer to spend the money on the rest of the holiday on activities and food. I do pay for W though if they are on sale (when they're 1.5 times the cost of cheap Y) and the flight is over 10 hrs... I find 10+hrs in Y to be torture... I cannot sleep in Y and a get numb legs from it which I'm sure increases my DVT risk...

I guess a lot of people get a kick out of the status, pampering and attention as well. I know I do and it's rather addictive...

In the end if it puts a smile on your face and you can afford it then no one should judge...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hi All
I have always wondered this - why do so many people fly self-funded business long-haul when it costs 3 x or more the cost of economy?

I am a high income earner yet I still fly economy because I consider the cost differential between economy and business to be poor value relative to other areas of life

are the people that self fund business travel just very wealthy, misguided or what?
or are there actually very few self funded business travellers out there?

is it because the self funders are all using FF points? but even then I would use FF points for economy flights so that I could travel more or is it a lot more efficient use of FF points to go business?

thanks for any insights

Flyman

I guess it all depends on your definition of 'high income earner'. If you're earning in the region of $1000 a day then the cost of premium travel is not really that much of a dent in the budget.

As other posters have pointed out, there are times (particularly in Asia) where the cost of a business class ticket can be very cheap, especially on a 2nd or 3rd tier carrier. For example, you can get a ticket in business class Hong kong to Shanghai on China Southern for around the same price as flying economy on Cathay Pacific. I am not that bound to the qantas frequent flyer program to take the cathay flight over China Southern.

Sometimes the benefits of flying a cheap business class are huge - priority immigration at Bangkok is an example.

As some other have said, there is no way I would fork out $1800 or so each way to Perth in business class... i don't think that makes much sense on any grounds. No way either I would pay the $600-$700 for a 56 minute flight MEL-SYD (for self funded travel that is).

however - I will only fly business class where there is a completely flat bed and highly personalised service. The rest of the experience, for me, doesn't live up to the price paid. Qantas clubs (crowded, dirty, poor food selections) don't sway me. neither do 'lie-flats'. So Qantas don't get my $$ flying anywhere they do in a 747 (in biz class). On board, biz service is not really tailored to my needs either... I still have to wait till the drink cart comes round and can't dine on demand.

I fly First class because I do get all of the above and the cost is (relatively) not that much more than business class. Having said that - no way I would pay $24000 to Europe return on SQ suites... that would require a million dollar income

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Long haul in economy is a means to get you to your destination. In business/first, flying is part of your destination.

When considering price, you're already paying for a seat. Let's think about it...

SYD-LHR return on QF you can get for $7k in business. Same flights in economy you are lucky to get for $2,500. That's $4,500 more to go business over 4 segments. $1,150 per segment extra over the Y price.

Now if you were offered a paid upgrade for $1k at check in would you take it? If so... you may as well have paid for a biz ticket!

Domestically it's a little different as the prices are so far out of proportion and it's very easy to get a spare seat next to you for a 1-2hour flight.

 

[elbarto]

If youre travelling for business, you would want to fly it. But as a leisure traveller I simply cannot afford to do it though I would if I could. I've been fortunate to fly long haul j a few times and even though you're supposed to be more refreshed at the other end I still wind up jet lagged.

 

[extracta]

Hi All
I have always wondered this - why do so many people fly self-funded business long-haul when it costs 3 x or more the cost of economy?

If you don't allow yourself to fall into the Frequent Flyer Program Trap and are free to use any airline then quite often you can get J or F seats for less than the price that QF sell economy seats for.

It really is a matter of doing your reasearch and being prepared to stick to fixed dates if necessary.

My main priority when booking a flight is getting a seat with plenty of room.

If the seat comes with lounge access then that is great, but lounge access can be paid for in most cities and is not a prerequisite for me booking a seat.

In flight service is not that important to me either. I can eat and drink on the ground if necessary. I do however find that the inflight service of the Asian carriers tends to be much superior. The staff seem to be much more attentive and spend less time talking to their friends in the galley.

 

[auriga]

... then quite often you can get J or F seats for less than the price that QF sell economy seats for.

Really? less than economy?:?: