Why I am ditching QF F/J longhaul, despite loving it.

[Flying mermaid]

Not sure it is about age. We did the Syd-scl return in J in January. Age of FAs in both directions was probably similar. Going over we had good service. Coming back was appalling. Both sets were pleasant, but coming back the one FA seems to have no idea (a very much older woman) and served wrong things (like forgetting to add seafood to the seafood risotto), which put a lot of pressure on the other FA so he became bad tempered and stressed.

Coming back from LAX a year ago in J on the 787, the crew was younger and very enthusiastic, so maybe age (or length of service), is a factor, or maybe it was just luck. I certainly feel that J or F should result in a good experience, given its not give away prices.

As you pay for J, I would have thought status is fairly unimportant to you, so why not just mix it up and fly J in different airlines - the variety might make it more pleasant as well. Familiarity can lead to being overly critical as well? We won’t fly Qantas internationally anymore and are finding flipping around the airlines makes it more interesting.

 

[jase05]

As you pay for J, I would have thought status is fairly unimportant to you, so why not just mix it up and fly J in different airlines - the variety might make it more pleasant as well. Familiarity can lead to being overly critical as well? We won’t fly Qantas internationally anymore and are finding flipping around the airlines makes it more interesting.

You sound similar to us. It’s been awhile since flying QFi and we tend to chop and change a fair bit. CX were our favourite for a long time but have found their service to vary and be patchy lately. It all comes down to personal preference and everyone is different, I’ve had wonderful flights and excellent service on airlines that get panned by others ( CI, VN and GA in particular) and on the flip side I’ve had terrible flights on airlines that others swear by. I think law of averages dictate that the amount of flying people do they will get a mixture of good and bad. I would say that EK probably has the most consistent product and service that we have experienced. I pretty much know what we will get get every time we fly with them

 

[juddles]

....Coming back from LAX a year ago in J on the 787, the crew was younger and very enthusiastic, so maybe age (or length of service), is a factor, or maybe it was just luck. I certainly feel that J or F should result in a good experience, given its not give away prices.

As you pay for J, I would have thought status is fairly unimportant to you, so why not just mix it up and fly J in different airlines - the variety might make it more pleasant as well. Familiarity can lead to being overly critical as well? We won’t fly Qantas internationally anymore and are finding flipping around the airlines makes it more interesting.

Maybe it is that familiarity of this repetitive trip that can reduce my happiness levels. Good point.

I do not fly QF for status. Have that LTG thing and also have status with star alliance. Unfortunately for me there is just no other option. The only other airlines that fly australia-sth america are LATAM and NZ. NZ is not an option as the connections are too much of a pain. And LATAM has very short seats in J, and no PE offering, hence me using QF as the best option.

When I fly anywhere else I have used a great variety of airlines.

At the end of the day I want Qantas to be the best it can, and frequent negative experiences with some staff is IMHO a big issue it faces.

This thread was intended about this sole issue - not about comparing different airlines.

 

[Ronh]

I think it's more to do with personality, workload, stress etc. I have the good fortune to travel F (paying my own way) on QF, BA & EK in the last few months and the "soft product" certainly varies. I've had great legs with younger staff but also great legs with older staff. On QF F recently Melb/Singapore I got to my seat to find it hadn't serviced from the previous flight. The FA was most apologetic, the CSM had a look and grunted ! .....mumbled something about cleaning staff would have to come back......45 mins (yes takeoff was delayed) the FA arrived with a dustpan and brush to sweep the floor and tidy up for me (the flight was full and I couldn't be moved). On a BA F flight to Melbourne/Venice the young staff went out of their way to see why I was travelling, when they heard I was travelling to surprise my wife in Venice for her birthday they were all over me !. Then a few weeks ago on EK F to Brisbane/Singapore (02:30am flight) I was the only F passenger and yet I had to use the call button or go find the FA to get something ! .....so I think it all depends on people !!

 

[mrsterryn]

Purely staff on Qantas
Had some amazing ones in F on QF1 and on the same flight (Dubai to Heathrow) absolutely abysmal.
I suppose I write it off as no one organisation is consistent
Also had , on the HNL Syd leg in economy, friendly considerate older staff

I did actually think you are nice enough to be up in business but I was pleased he was in economy.
Unless I am consistently receiving poor service wouldn't consider it endemic to Qantas.
Across all classes in Qantas I have received good bad and indifferent staff and service

 

[dajop]

I wonder if sometimes the service design is a contributor to a feeling of poor service, and the outstanding crew shine, but the “average crew” just doing their job suffer for it. I’m most familiar with the relatively short MEL-SIN-MEL route and have heard that immediately after takeoff some of the staff go in break. Not sure if it is true or not but it may go some way to explaining long waits for drinks etc. Whereas competitors on the route, EK and SQ, have full staffing until meal service is over.

Also have read things such as focussing first on pax who want light snack and sleep ASAP means that passengers wanting a full meal just have to wait, sometimes a long time, for any service.

Another example, SQ have designed their service (on all but short and supper flights) such that drink orders are taken before take off and after takeoff, a few minutes after the seat belt sign is turned off, you have a drink in your hand. It makes you feel like the crew are good, whereas it is the design of the device that is the important factor here. Ditto with SQ’s multiple hot towel services.

Not sure how all this applies to longer routes like SYD-SCL, but I am sure plays a role.

 

[JohnM]

I had a situation that bears on this discussion last week in QF J DRW-PER (B738).

The onboard WiFi was very good - seemingly so good that the FAs were sitting in their seats and on their phones (I can only assume using the WiFi to browse the web) after the meal service, to the point that they seemed to be losing track of time. As I said to the guy next to me, the service hadn't been bad but it was becoming increasingly inaccessible as they failed to check the cabin for anything pax may want.

I know it's easy enough to press the call button, but mostly one can rely on at least one of the FAs to periodically walk along to check.

Even if they were not browsing the internet, they were using their phones for some time to look and compare things on them. The question arises in my mind whether onboard staff should be forbidden to use their phones while on duty? Certainly I think they should be forbidden from browsing the internet as being too distracting from their main job (safety).

Has anyone else encountered this since onboard WiFi became common and good?

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I had a situation that bears on this discussion last week in QF J DRW-PER (B738).

The onboard WiFi was very good - seemingly so good that the FAs were sitting in their seats and on their phones (I can only assume using the WiFi to browse the web) after the meal service, to the point that they seemed to be losing track of time. As I said to the guy next to me, the service hadn't been bad but it was becoming increasingly inaccessible as they failed to check the cabin for anything pax may want.

I know it's easy enough to press the call button, but mostly one can rely on at least one of the FAs to periodically walk along to check.

Even if they were not browsing the internet, they were using their phones for some time to look and compare things on them. The question arises in my mind whether onboard staff should be forbidden to use their phones while on duty? Certainly I think they should be forbidden from browsing the internet as being too distracting from their main job (safety).

Has anyone else encountered this since onboard WiFi became common and good?

WiFi on ADL flights?? I almost spat out my cheese fondue and prawn coughtail

Interesting one this. I don't do much domestic travel and when I do it's usually hops to the east coast for connecting international flights, hence crew is busy most of the time. The longer sectors though I've got little issue with crew checking the interweb but of course not to the detriment of service AND on a 738 where it's impossible to hide with the stream of pax going to the forward toilets. I'm firmly in the camp of never needing to use the call button when in a premium cabin and scouting 12 seats with a bottle of red in hand and a bottle of white in the other really is not a chore. Did you give feedback on the flight?

 

[JohnM]

Did you give feedback on the flight?

No. I may have been more inclined to do so if I was sure that they were browsing the internet (as opposed to looking at photos, say).

 

[Quickstatus]

@juddles

Is it possible that the soft product you experienced in J on the 747 and also the “consistent inconsistency” aptly described by @drron is influenced by the different EBA of the various cabin crews or the type of aircraft and the various bases where they operate out of.

I also recall there are 2 groups of flight attendants are employed by 2 different companies: QAL and QCCA.

I have little information on this but when the A380 came into service, I recall there was a new EBA for the A380 CC. Some 747 CC went to A380 while others stayed. And so the A380 CC possibly was a mix of experience and new recruits.

The 787 crew on the PER-LHR are London based and you would never see them on the 747 product to/from SCL.

What other overseas based cabin crew are there? Jetconnect is NZ based

 

[Pleb Status]

I had a situation that bears on this discussion last week in QF J DRW-PER (B738).

The onboard WiFi was very good - seemingly so good that the FAs were sitting in their seats and on their phones (I can only assume using the WiFi to browse the web) after the meal service, to the point that they seemed to be losing track of time. As I said to the guy next to me, the service hadn't been bad but it was becoming increasingly inaccessible as they failed to check the cabin for anything pax may want.

I know it's easy enough to press the call button, but mostly one can rely on at least one of the FAs to periodically walk along to check.

Even if they were not browsing the internet, they were using their phones for some time to look and compare things on them. The question arises in my mind whether onboard staff should be forbidden to use their phones while on duty? Certainly I think they should be forbidden from browsing the internet as being too distracting from their main job (safety).

Has anyone else encountered this since onboard WiFi became common and good?

There was a 'rumour' that VA recently changed the login arrangements into their onboard WiFi system so the FA could not login and use it.

I do not know how true this is....

 

[flyingfan]

The onboard WiFi was very good - seemingly so good that the FAs were sitting in their seats and on their phones (I can only assume using the WiFi to browse the web) after the meal service, to the point that they seemed to be losing track of time.

I would have thought it's only for passengers as it asks for seat numbers, unless there's additional staff-only login too. I was impressed with the wifi, pages loaded very quickly on my laptop (not just my phone).

 

[JohnM]

I would have thought it's only for passengers as it asks for seat numbers, unless there's additional staff-only login too. I was impressed with the wifi, pages loaded very quickly on my laptop (not just my phone).

Ah - very good point. I had forgotten about the login. I would be surprised if crew could log in.

Then the crew were spending what still seemed to be inordinate amount of time distracted from their tasks by looking at things on their phones. I think it's too easy to lose track of time while flicking through things on the screen. It was not really a very good look IMO.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I would have thought it's only for passengers as it asks for seat numbers, unless there's additional staff-only login too.

Ah - very good point. I had forgotten about the login. I would be surprised if crew could log in.

Back door login? Seat 99Z anyone?

 

[Matt_01]

I would have thought it's only for passengers as it asks for seat numbers.....

I am not sure if the manifest details first name, it certainly has seat number a family name. If manifest has the pax first name any crew member with access could log on as a pax.

 

[Matt_01]

Back door login? Seat 99Z anyone?

Maybe just like the flights xyz-xyz, although I have not seen these for a while it now just says flight credit and a redeem in place of the upgrade/manage option.

 

[drron]

OT but in view of JohnM's observation on our cruises the staff are not allowed to use their phone when on duty.And they have much longer days.

 

[juddles]

the thing with mobiles could also reflect the loss of professionalism (in the customer service sense) that some QF staff seem to suffer. It is something I have not yet seen (as I don't really do much travel where there is wifi, but I for one am completely against staff using onboard wifi.

If I was in a restaurant and seeking to catch the attention of waiting staff, and I saw they had their eyes glued to their mobiles, I would be appalled. Same on a plane. Call me old-fashioned, but I do not see the use of mobiles during work hours a good thing in any job.

 

[yohy?!]

Status is a huge factor as well- flying J as WP compared to PS is very different in terms of treatment IME

 

[dajop]

Call me old-fashioned, but I do not see the use of mobiles during work hours a good thing in any job.

Well I don’t know about any job. For many they are a tool of trade. But certainly jobs where the focus needs to be on other things.