WikiLeaks

[oz_mark]

If he had committed a criminal act in the US, they would have charged him. They have now spent the best part of 3 months trying to invent a charge. Gee, even the coughs at the AFP tried to find a charge against him, but came up with doughnuts.

I have been wondering through some of these posts about exactly what fair trial we are talking about. A fair trial would require that he had been charged with something, and despit all the protestations about his actions being illegal, nobody has actually come up with what he has done that is illegal (Swedish charges aside).

Now if Wikileaks had done something that is illegal, according to the politicians, then they should be articulating exactly what law has been broken. At this point, they seem to have failed to do do. Talk of a fair trial is therefore moot.

 

[dfcatch]

Just I don't have your say belief in how our democracy works today in practice, even if it is a good model.

Fair point

I'm just not persuaded that the Wikileaks approach improves the situation albeit imperfect as it stands.

Again, my main contention is that if it were an avenue for genuine whistleblowers to uncover genuine corruption or illegal activity then thats one thing.

But it seems to me that it's just a political tool to publish embarrassing and politically inconvenient material, and I don't think that leaking just for the sake of leaking is a good thing.

 

[dfcatch]

Hands up,the exception that proves the rule-though I think you will find this issue really cuts across political beliefs.

The hypothesis may appear attractive simply on the basis of who the target of leaks was....

But on the principle of leaking and Wikileaks' actions, I agree with drron that it cuts across the spectrum.

Maybe with the exception of the greens and its supporters.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I think it says more about incompetant politicians and bureaurecrats than Mr Assange.

Technology finally exposes the slow mob we place our trust in!!!!

 

[drron]

I think it is more likely conservative vs liberal, which doesn't really align with australian politics so much where Liberals may be conservative or liberal.

I dont think people fit so neatly into such labels.As a young fellow I was a member of the ALP and was considered to be to the left by left wingers.With experience and running foul of the NSW ALP government as a whistleblower i became a member of the Liberals.The Conservatives thought i was one of them,the liberals weren't so sure but obviously my views aligned with theirs more often than not.I do however have a mix of liberal and conservative views.
Now i am basically unaligned.However it seems to me that it is the more conservative of my acquaintences who tend to favor Assange.

 

[Alanslegal]

Hands up,the exception that proves the rule-though I think you will find this issue really cuts across political beliefs.

My hypothesis is done and dusted, thanks for a quick response.

 

[Alanslegal]

Bradley Manning is now facing the possibility of the death penalty,

Manning faces new charges, possible death penalty - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com


Looks like Assange will be headed this way as well given his likely extradition to Sweden, then moved to the US. Best outcome for Assange is high likelihood of torture and then life solitary detention.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Looks like Assange will be headed this way as well given his likely extradition to Sweden, then moved to the US. Best outcome for Assange is high likelihood of torture and then life solitary detention.

If I were Assange, l would try to
a) Somehow do the runner (might be hard and could also do damage to the person who signed him up under house arrest). Once Sweden gets hold of him, he is a goner.
b) Release the Bank of America documents that they have (4gb worth) that is said to be enough to bring down the CEO

I also like the comments at the bottom of that article Alanslegal

And yet no one has been charged with anything for the near financial collapse of this country. Its amazing!

And in other news: D!ck Cheney is STILL a free man after committing TREASON.

I did a little Google and found this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

On July 13, 2006, Joseph and Valerie Wilson filed a civil lawsuit against Rove, Libby, Vice President **** Cheney, and other unnamed senior White House officials (among whom they later added Richard Armitage)[43] for their alleged role in the public disclosure of Valerie Wilson's classified CIA status

 

[clifford]

If I were Assange, l would try to ...

Well I did say that one of the girls in Sweden was a CIA agent, and I did give you her name.

What's more to say?

 

[casanovawa]

Manning should be executed if guilty of leaking the classified documents... US is at war and its treason so he should swing or fry...

As for assange i have no sympathy for the guy, till he leaks Chinese, Russian or North Korean secrets then i'll applaud how brave he is...

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Manning should be executed if guilty of leaking the classified documents... US is at war and its treason so he should swing or fry...

As for assange i have no sympathy for the guy, till he leaks Chinese, Russian or North Korean secrets then i'll applaud how brave he is...

1) So the Collateral Murder, if it wasn't leaked in the first place, is ok by you and should have been covered up? I'm sure if it was one of your family members, you'd have a different opinion.
2) Wikileaks is an organisation that leaks what is given to them. They leak what they get......

SBS, "Insight" had a "Secrets" segment. Very interesting.
SBS Insight

 

[odysseus]

Now he's made an application to trademark protect his name! Julian Assange Makes Application To Trademark His Name | ITProPortal.com Including restrictions on journalistic use.

More evidence that his activities have been for his glory and fame rather than any sense of principles, hence his lack of respect for others.

 

[casanovawa]

If the collateral murder video relates to the incident with the US chopper which i have seen, i recall some members of the group were carrying AK assault rifles and was there a rocket luncher amongst them too wasn't there... that lot weren't heading to a picnic...

I'm sure there are other such incidents in that war that didn't go entirely to plan as in every war... before judging that situation i would need to see some camera footage of other engagements about how insurgent groups may have been able to get away because of restrictive rules of engagement... one bit of footage is hard to judge in a war that no doubt got vicious and ditry on all sides for several years...

like i said when everyones dirty laundry is aired then i will be more open to it, throughout the cold war the West, usually via traitors and Useful Idiots, laid itself wide open, traitors in China, Russia and other places got a bullet to the back of the head and their families in camps no questions asked... so Assange, go digging into Iran's affairs or any of these other rogue nations or police states and make sure everyone gets the same treatment...

as stated Manning should be an open and shut case if found guilty...

 

[drron]

Well this is the video-
YouTube - Wikileaks: Reuters Camera crew slain by US soldiers. Remember, not all troops are evil.
And i can see no AKs or rocket launcher and certainly no return fire.It has been acknowledged to be a Reuters camera crew.

 

[casanovawa]

Hmmm, Drron, that is the 1.40 minute very edited highlight package link, i watched the full 17 minute one, then i went and did search on the net and wikipedia of the engagement, that then leads to other reports that make the engagement no where near as cut and dried as the collateral murder video indicates...

Military Raises Questions About Credibility of Leaked Iraq Shooting Video - FoxNews.com

Assange even ends up admitting that there probably were weapons amongst the group (although they didn't quite take the time to highlight these like the cameras, which from a distance could be genuinely mistaken for slung weapons)... I don't know what had been happening in that area before the 17 minute video commenced, or that morning or on preceding days that I would also need to know to make a judgement on whether these pilots just had nothing better to do than get some kicks shooting up random groups of people,... i don't know of other similar engagements and the tactics that insurgents typically used that these guys may have dealt with on a daily basis...

while it was obviously an unfortuante incident, as has happened in every war since the dawn of time, giving me a 17 minute grab from one camera by an organisation that plainly has a certain angle to push and so isn't necessarily taking a balanced view of the conflicting issues, doesn't mean that i am going to jump up and down condemning the soldiers and the US and saying Assange is the legend that he most certainly thinks he is himself...

However saying that, it was unfortunate, but i am not breaking any news that war has those moments...

 

[drron]

Well if you have watched the full release you will have heard how the gunship was called in as US forces were under small arms fire from a rooftop.so they shoot up a group on the ground.
And where were the even misidentified weapons in the van-a family who came to help the wounded.
Now I agree in the situation where your opponents dont wear uniforms etc it is obviously very difficult and mistakes happen.But what happened after the incident was no mistake-the Pentagon claimed the Reuters crew was killed in crossfire-the video certainly exposed that lie.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Now I agree in the situation where your opponents dont wear uniforms etc it is obviously very difficult and mistakes happen.But what happened after the incident was no mistake-the Pentagon claimed the Reuters crew was killed in crossfire-the video certainly exposed that lie.

Bingo.

I guess most people are missing the point and go off on a tangent about Assange and Wikileaks etc etc when the whole purpose was exposing the lies/cover-ups that are being committed.
After reading a few threads/forums/feedback on US sites, l suspect that most US citizens are being taken for a ride and listen to every word on FOX.

 

[casanovawa]

the point of the video, entitled "Collateral Murder" not "we caught you telling fibs", was to make out the US goes around unjustifiably shooting up poor journalists and sweet innocents out for a stroll....

They made every attempt in the video to make out how unjust the action was, while in no way trying to paint a balanced picture (some little one line at the start about there may have been weapons while 3 minutes worth of setting the scene up how they wanted people to react to it...) the video presented just as unbalanced a view of what happened as anything Fox comes up with...

I'm more worried about what the action was, was there a blatant crime, then perhaps how it was described, and then there was an investigation afterwards, probably not to everyone's satisfaction... could they have described it better to the public, yes... in the atmosphere of what was going on at the time, can i understand that they didn't, yeah probably...