Will you ever fly the 737 MAX?

[ozjuice]

I'd avoid wherever possible.

 

[mrsterryn]

Regardless of rational or not...nope I will avoid.
I realise many people fly Malaysian Airlines I wont . Again rational or not

 

[juddles]

I think that this whole episode has yet again drawn attention to something going wrong in aviation. It is clear to me that the software fixes were a last minute add on to allow Boeing to keep an ancient airframe running with some major flight-affecting add-ons. And they did this software on a really uncomfortable premise that the pilots did not need to know. This is for me a bad philosophy.

The great thing about aviation is that it is such a sensitive topic that now Boeing will be under vast scrutiny - yet again the overall safety of aviation will come to the fore.

 

[jb747]

Absolutely...

...if JB747 is the pilot.

JB won’t be on it. I’m sure they’ll come up with something to stop MCAS runaway, but I don’t like the reason it’s there in the first place.

 

[jb747]

I think that this whole episode has yet again drawn attention to something going wrong in aviation. It is clear to me that the software fixes were a last minute add on to allow Boeing to keep an ancient airframe running with some major flight-affecting add-ons. And they did this software on a really uncomfortable premise that the pilots did not need to know. This is for me a bad philosophy.

The great thing about aviation is that it is such a sensitive topic that now Boeing will be under vast scrutiny - yet again the overall safety of aviation will come to the fore.

Software fixes on one side of the equation, which have had the effect of taking necessary control away from the pilots. On the other hand, if you’ve been following the 767 accident that occurred in Texas, it would seem to too much control is just as bad.

 

[woodborer]

I think that this whole episode has yet again drawn attention to something going wrong in aviation. It is clear to me that the software fixes were a last minute add on to allow Boeing to keep an ancient airframe running with some major flight-affecting add-ons. And they did this software on a really uncomfortable premise that the pilots did not need to know. This is for me a bad philosophy.

The great thing about aviation is that it is such a sensitive topic that now Boeing will be under vast scrutiny - yet again the overall safety of aviation will come to the fore.

I would say that until the other day, Boeing were still very much in a 'nothing to see here' mode with MCAS.

 

[juddles]

I would say that until the other day, Boeing were still very much in a 'nothing to see here' mode with MCAS.

and these tragedies have burst their bubble. Sad that so many had to die to get a major rethink happening :/

 

[JohnK]

I usually try to avoid flying new aircraft until the aircraft has been proven (think A380, 787) but this one will be difficult to avoid.

If Boeing fixed all the issues and the safety regulators around the world endorsed the changes then I don't see any issues.

 

[juddles]

......
If Boeing fixed all the issues and the safety regulators around the world endorsed the changes then I don't see any issues.

Then you would be accepting that this outdated airframe with non-matching engines is made ok by afterthought fixes - the inherent design is flawed. And not thinking about that I could understand your point of view.

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

At this point, no i will not fly the 737 Max. Maybe in the future once i am convinced that the problems are fixed then i would fly again. However, i can't see that happening anytime soon.

So, what does this mean in practice? It means i will think twice about flying airlines where the Max can be substituted in. Once Virgin start flying them i will be actively looking for alternatives...

 

[kamchatsky]

I would avoid it if possible.. as a former software engineer, I know that even with bugs being fixed in this software release, doesn't mean that it won't be introduced in the future releases, especially with the Agile methodologies that most software development are done these days.

 

[Flying Fox]

To be decided.

Can I ask for those who say NO. What happens if you have done all your checking and confirmed that your flight isn't scheduled on the B737Max and then you get to the gate and there has been a last minute substitution and your flight is now on the B737Max.

What would you do?

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

To be decided.

Can I ask for those who say NO. What happens if you have done all your checking and confirmed that your flight isn't scheduled on the B737Max and then you get to the gate and there has been a last minute substitution and your flight is now on the B737Max.

What would you do?

In the interim, i plan on not booking flights with airlines that have the Max in their fleet.

 

[mrsterryn]

To be decided.

Can I ask for those who say NO. What happens if you have done all your checking and confirmed that your flight isn't scheduled on the B737Max and then you get to the gate and there has been a last minute substitution and your flight is now on the B737Max.

What would you do?

I have to say I would probable panic

 

[kamchatsky]

To be decided.

Can I ask for those who say NO. What happens if you have done all your checking and confirmed that your flight isn't scheduled on the B737Max and then you get to the gate and there has been a last minute substitution and your flight is now on the B737Max.

What would you do?

I would probably avoid VA if they do receive their 737 Max, and I am a VA Platinum.

 

[jb747]

Software....

Back around the late '90s, I'd diverted to Melbourne on an early morning arrival from Singapore to Sydney. After refuelling, the fog had cleared and we made our way back to Sydney. We planned the descent, and had put a 'below FL250' step into the FMC. We didn't know exactly what ATC would clear us for, but it was reasonable bet that that would build an approximately correct altitude profile for the descent. Started the descent as usual, and were actually cleared to exactly FL250. That was put into the MCP window, and the aircraft was descending on the profile as per the FMC. All good. As it approached FL250, it was obvious that the autopilot was not going to level off, and the FO, who was flying, disconnected it, and levelled off manually. That was weird, because in the VNAV mode that we were in, the aircraft should have been unable to breach an MCP altitude. We figured that we must have made a programming error, and moved on.

As luck would have it, I did the Melbourne Sydney sector a number of times over the next week, and as I could not think of how we'd made an error, I looked at it a number of ways on the various flights. Eventually I found a way of reliably, repeatedly, making the aircraft fly through the MCP altitude....

I took this info to our chief technical pilot, and whilst his initial response was 'bulls@@t', he contacted Boeing. A day or so later I found out that they'd been able to duplicate it, and that the issue existed in 737, 747, 757, and 767. A red bulletin came out quickly informing everyone, and a software update removed the issue a few months later.

Fast forward seven or eight years. Flying the same STAR into Sydney, this time in a 747-400...and lo and behold, the glitch was back. One software update had removed it, and a few years later, another one put it back.

 

[juliusg]

Software....

Back around the late '90s, I'd diverted to Melbourne on an early morning arrival from Singapore to Sydney. After refuelling, the fog had cleared and we made our way back to Sydney. We planned the descent, and had put a 'below FL250' step into the FMC. We didn't know exactly what ATC would clear us for, but it was reasonable bet that that would build an approximately correct altitude profile for the descent. Started the descent as usual, and were actually cleared to exactly FL250. That was put into the MCP window, and the aircraft was descending on the profile as per the FMC. All good. As it approached FL250, it was obvious that the autopilot was not going to level off, and the FO, who was flying, disconnected it, and levelled off manually. That was weird, because in the VNAV mode that we were in, the aircraft should have been unable to breach an MCP altitude. We figured that we must have made a programming error, and moved on.

As luck would have it, I did the Melbourne Sydney sector a number of times over the next week, and as I could not think of how we'd made an error, I looked at it a number of ways on the various flights. Eventually I found a way of reliably, repeatedly, making the aircraft fly through the MCP altitude....

I took this info to our chief technical pilot, and whilst his initial response was 'bulls@@t', he contacted Boeing. A day or so later I found out that they'd been able to duplicate it, and that the issue existed in 737, 747, 757, and 767. A red bulletin came out quickly informing everyone, and a software update removed the issue a few months later.

Fast forward seven or eight years. Flying the same STAR into Sydney, this time in a 747-400...and lo and behold, the glitch was back. One software update had removed it, and a few years later, another one put it back.

That plus the fact that the Max is not 'in balance' due to forward mounted engines makes it a no0-go for me. I'm a Virgin Plat. If they do ad the Max I'll switch to QF because of the risk of a Max getting subbed and the hassle of trying to avoid it.

 

[woodborer]

That plus the fact that the Max is not 'in balance' due to forward mounted engines makes it a no0-go for me. I'm a Virgin Plat. If they do ad the Max I'll switch to QF because of the risk of a Max getting subbed and the hassle of trying to avoid it.

Well, it will definitely interesting to see which way Qantas jumps with the 737 replacement program which has to be starting in the next couple of years....

We might all be flying Jetstar....

 

[kamchatsky]

Well, it will definitely interesting to see which way Qantas jumps with the 737 replacement program which has to be starting in the next couple of years....

We might all be flying Jetstar....

Better be late than be dead.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Regardless of rational or not...nope I will avoid.
I realise many people fly Malaysian Airlines I wont . Again rational or not

Malaysia Airlines is set to receive the MAX in 2020. Shall we have an AFF party on the inaugural flight?


Joking...... won't catch me on a MAX.


But you make an excellent point. Two deadly crashes within a short timeframe of each other and people don't forget. So even if Boeing did make major changes to the MAX - they will suffer from the 'Malaysia Airlines' effect.