WSI for Western Sydney Airport

[Lynda2475]

The explosion in airline travel is mostly attributed to the middle class

And the areas I mentioned are all middle class. Sure there are tiny pockets of mega wealthy in lower North Shore and harbour side of inner east but overwhelmingly those areas are middle class.

In my last job we had Lower Socio Economic targets and those students were all in the South West and Outer West areas (many of which were not traditionally considered part of Sydney and used to be a long distance STD to call them).

I stand by my prediction that WSI will not be very successful for passenger traffic, it will be the domain of the budget airlines, non premium routes and most living in Sydney will continue to preferace SYD with its superior PT connections, proximity to city of Sydney and premium airlines.

 

[SYD]

There are major cities with more than 2 vibrant international airports . The point is that each airport does not need to completely duplicate the other.

Yep. The argument for NOT building a 2nd airport was lost in about 1970 something!

Removing the curfew, more runways etc was NEVER going float (especially the runway ) and SYD is pretty much at capacity now. The parallel runway bought some time but it just took some ba$$s to make a decision on where to put a 2nd airport (against the sea of NIMBYism).

WSI is built. It’s opening (far too late IMHO) and will be a success in due course and the current SYD isn’t going away anytime soon - if ever. It should only get better and be complimentary to WSI.

Yes, there are significant population centres and business in “Western Sydney” that will benefit immediately. But, for a lot of Sydney siders - it’s a bloody long way away and no practical, fast way to get there and back. Nor any real firm plans to address that. Which is a shame.

 

[SeatBackForward]

This will probably be the biggest immediate need and operational usecase from day1 of WSI and why WSI should be profitable from the get go. Not passenger and airline throughput but freight throughput.

I imagine most cargo freight companies will move their ops very quickly over to WSI (and possibly even increase ops).

This is the most important part that many are missing. This is an absolute game changer for the freight industry

and correct me if I’m wrong, even those dedicated big freight jets come and go late at night or other off peak times (much to the joy of inner west residence). Moving all that to WSI with cheaper / 24 hr ops ought to see air freight grow and hopefully cheaper.

Oz Post has already moved their main warehouse out that way to a place I’d never heard of until I saw a notice about some QF Wine heading in the opposite direction to me!

Meanwhile, yes freeing up some space at SYD T1 is a good thing. Combine that with some healthy competition between SYD and WSI for international PAX, we might actually see a win win for airlines and PAX (cheaper fares - lower fees and more planes overall).

Big news for Western Sydney!

We're thrilled to announce that Qantas Group and Menzies Aviation have signed up to operate from Western Sydney International (Nancy-Bird Walton) Airport’s brand new 24-hour Cargo Precinct – supercharging Sydney’s air cargo capacity by 33% on day one of operations

This is a game-changer for businesses and customers in Greater Sydney and regional NSW. Our farmers will now be able to get their fresh produce to overseas markets more efficiently, while customers will receive their e-commerce goods faster than ever.

LinkedIn

 

[markis10]

Will be interesting to see a real curfew and no dispensations or exceptions for 5AM arrivals kick in, I reckon the locals may have trouble sleeping for a while with the quiet sky’s.

 

[Quickstatus]

those areas are middle class

as are large parts of Greater Western Sydney

WSI will not be very successful for passenger traffic, it will be the domain of the budget airline

Budget airlines = low passenger traffic ?
Strange how in Europe, LCC have increased airport profitability and made secondary airports very important aviation hubs .
BCN is an example of an airport which derives half of its traffic from the leisure market. LTN is a very important hub for LCCs

It remains to be seen what type of traffic WSI will attract. Lets see....

 

[Quickstatus]

But, for a lot of Sydney siders - it’s a bloody long way away and no practical,

For some
For me it is takes about the same time (driving)

I suspect the time it takes to get there will not be a huge issue.
The passenger will go to where the flight is most attractive.

 

[JMB1]

Amazes me how many on this thread are cutting down WSI

Not only is it closer for a significant part of Western Sydney, but if you look at literally any planning docs you'll see that a huge amount of urban development is planned to occur out that way, including Sydney's 3rd CBD Bradfield.

Really speaks to our small town mindset sometimes that people cannot conceive of our biggest city having two functioning major airports

 

[moa999]

Cargo precinct at WSI now under construction. Well away from the passenger terminal.

Will be interesting to see whether WSI opening changes the curfew enforcement at SYD.
Eg. Will the early morning shoulder arrivals still be allowed, will ministerial approvals for delayed arrivals still be granted as much

 

[SYD]

Cargo precinct now under construction.

Will be interesting to see whether WSI opening changes the curfew enforcement.
Eg. Will the early morning shoulder arrivals still be allowed, will ministerial approvals for delayed arrivals still be granted as much

What curfew?

WSI will be 24/7 "curfew free".

 

[moa999]

What curfew?

At SYD.

 

[Quickstatus]

At SYD.

Possibly curfew dispensations might be even rarer?

.....

Looking ahead. I wonder when it will be privatised.

 

[kamchatsky]

I wonder if a plane is late to SYD and it hits curfew, will it be allowed to be diverted to WSI for landing and allow passenger to depart? Or they have to be on hold and then fly to SYD when curfew is over?

 

[SYD]

Really speaks to our small town mindset sometimes that people cannot conceive of our biggest city having two functioning major airports

There’s only a very small minority here espousing that and it’s quite academic now - it’s happening and it’ll be good in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Quickstatus]

Or they have to be on hold and then fly to SYD when curfew is over?

"On hold" meaning wait in the air or on the ground?

 

[kamchatsky]

"On hold" meaning wait in the air or on the ground?

On the ground

 

[Quickstatus]

On the ground

Yes they will have to land at an airport that will allow them a clearance to land and then after that fly to SYD when curfew ends.

Example
BNE-SYD takes off but misses curfew by 1 minute and curfew dispensation not approved. Does it fly back to BNE or go to WSI?

Landing at WSI better because the passengers can easily road trip to wherever they are going - somewhere in Sydney or surrounding regional centres.
Landing at WSI allows pilots and crew to go home (assuming that as it is the last flight they are based in Sydney. It means that the crew are not displaced and out of position.
WSI-SYD is a slightly shorter flight in time than having to do another BNE-SYD

 

[clifford]

easily road trip to wherever they are going

?

 

[Lynda2475]

Landing at WSI better because the passengers can easily road trip to wherever they are going - somewhere in Sydney or surrounding regional centres.

Your definition of easy is very different to mine.

SYD-Home max of $30 (much much cheaper if before midnight) and 15mins. WSI-Home >$200 and at least 90mins if you can actually get a ride willing to drive so far out of area.

Doubt there would be enough regional drivers willing to drive to Sydney if an A380 was diverted to WSI. I can imagine the surge pricing exceeding $500 easily. Cheaper to return to bne and pay for a hotel; then land early next morning.

I don't have an issue with a second airport just the absolutely useless location of such.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes they will have to land at an airport that will allow them a clearance to land and then after that fly to SYD when curfew ends.

Example
BNE-SYD takes off but misses curfew by 1 minute and curfew dispensation not approved. Does it fly back to BNE or go to WSI?

Landing at WSI better because the passengers can easily road trip to wherever they are going - somewhere in Sydney or surrounding regional centres.
Landing at WSI allows pilots and crew to go home (assuming that as it is the last flight they are based in Sydney. It means that the crew are not displaced and out of position.
WSI-SYD is a slightly shorter flight in time than having to do another BNE-SYD

I think you’ll find they’ll fly back to BNE.

We see this already with BNE/OOL and MEL/AVV. Just easiest to send it back and leave the origin port to deal with it.

If it’s weather etc sure they might divert due to fuel but that’s a different situation to your scenario.

 

[Quickstatus]

Your definition of easy is very different to mine.

And thats my point - a lot of peoole live a lot further away from SYD airport. That you live closer does not mean that significant populations do not live outside of your radius.

Home - SYD is for me what Home - WSI is for you.

I think you’ll find they’ll fly back to BNE.

Lets see what happens