Singapore Airlines and Flight Centre falling out ?

[stekmer]

I have just received an email from Singapore airlines .... text below is copied from the email. Does anyone know what has happened?

As a valued KrisFlyer member, I am writing to inform you that as a result of a commercial impasse with Flight Centre, Singapore Airlines airfares might not be available for purchase through Flight Centre retail outlets.

Singapore Airlines is still committed to giving our customers great value fares. Singapore Airlines has agreements in place with other major travel agents, and our flights can be booked as per normal through all other travel agency groups, or online at singaporeair web site.

Thank you for your continued support. We look forward to welcoming you on board again soon.

With best wishes,

Dale Woodhouse
Manager Passenger Marketing, Australia.

 

[Evan]

Yes, i also got the email, wonder what the issue was. I guess we will all find out soon.
Must be ugly because thats not a nice email to be sending.

 

[MAX_1]

Falling out between a supplier and a seller is usually about commission paid per transaction....thats my guess.

 

[Mal]

Falling out between a supplier and a seller is usually about commission paid per transaction....thats my guess.

I'm interested in finding out if it's a contractual issue regarding the recent SQ sale and it's fares... Hopefully a media type place will give more details soon.

"Flight Centre. Unbeatable" (unless flying Singapore Airlines).

 

[diesmile]

when the singapore had that massive sell, i notice all the adelaide flight centre has an A4 size sheet sticking on the door says "it will beat the web price", not sure if this is related.

on a side note, what a load of cr@p when flight centre keep saying they can beat any price, most time, they are more expansive then web price, and also other travel agencies.

 

[AlphaVictor]

Looks like SQ have called FC's bluff.

"Give us better commission or we'll boycott your airline" - FC
"Bye bye" - SQ
"Ooops" - FC
"What's all this then" - ACCC

 

[Flashback]

Just recently someone here had an issue with FC + SQ, I wonder if it's at all related.

 

[SIA1A]

Looks like SQ have called FC's bluff.

"Give us better commission or we'll boycott your airline" - FC
"Bye bye" - SQ
"Ooops" - FC
"What's all this then" - ACCC

Fair enough until the last line - I can't see why the ACCC would be interested in this stoush. The combatants are both in the big league and both wield market power. Importantly, I very much doubt that a stoush such as this disadvantages the consumer (although we don't have any details yet).

Has anyone detected discussion about this in the press yet? The journos seem to be uncharacteristically mute. Nothing that I could see in the AFR, The Australian or the SMH.

 

[Evan]

At first i thought it was worded like SQ were blaming FC and they wanted to make it public to get some minds changed... but then i figured by now they would have leaked the reason.. or maybe that comes in a few days if FC does not bow to presure.

 

[Mal]

Singapore Airlines and Flight Centre at odds - etravelblackboard.com

 

[Travel Guru]

The way I understand it, and despite SQ denying it in the press today, they were trying to drop FC's commission down to next to nothing.

I wouldn't be blaming FC on this one, most agents don't have much respect for SQ these days, and I believe alot of the issues may have come about because SQ happily sell tickets on their website at just above nett (im talking not enough to get me a taxi from Sydney domestic to international airport) and FC was losing hand over fist quote beating them because they guarantee a min. reimbursement to their consultants.

SQ may well be one of the best airlines in the air, but on the ground they leave a lot to be desired in their treatment of agents not just in relation to commission levels but in their general attitude which most of the time borders on disdain.

From what I hear, FC had a national stop sell out on SQ yesterday, not sure if thats been removed today, but they were blocking GDS access to SQ flights in a bid to cost SQ a few $$.


In the current economic environment, the agent distribution channel is more important than ever before IMO, and SQ were naive if they thought they could just knock FC down to zero commission and it would be accepted.

Personally I wont sell SQ unless its requested, its simply not worth it to have to deal with their staff, i'm sick of being left feeling like i'm they're doing me a favour letting me promote and sell their product.

TG

 

[odysseus]

Fair enough until the last line - I can't see why the ACCC would be interested in this stoush. The combatants are both in the big league and both wield market power. Importantly, I very much doubt that a stoush such as this disadvantages the consumer (although we don't have any details yet).

I thought similar, but also it may not have been pre-empted by FC. A lot of movement between agencies has involved airlines reducing commission. Although the release said it was for an incentive for all we know that may have been in lieu of reduced commissions in any case.

As for the ACCC I don't see they would have any concerns either. Many industries with agency arrangements e.g. recruitment, mortgage broking do not promise or offer comprehensive agreements with all suppliers.

 

[jaffa]

I know of 2 other major agency chains, that are having the same problems with SQ that FC have just acted on.
In fact for months now, they have all been holding out to see what their competition will do.
Well it seems here that FC is the first to act, now it will be interesting to see how the others follow.

I know that most agencys are pi***d off that SQ continues told hold back big chunks of prime inventory to sell themselves at prices the agencys can not meet unless accepting virtually no comm's.

If more agency's follow FC's position as l predict, then SQ will be forced into a corner with no where to run except relent to a fair playing field.

The question is, will FC hold their ground or cave.

SQ's biggest problem here is that Thai, CP and JAL's contracts are also soon up for renewal. If one of them is smart with FC the whole ballpark could change, especially if it was CP.

I think out of all of this SQ has more to lose than FC. Regardless how any of this works out.

 

[Travel Guru]

I know of 2 other major agency chains, that are having the same problems with SQ that FC have just acted on.
In fact for months now, they have all been holding out to see what their competition will do.
Well it seems here that FC is the first to act, now it will be interesting to see how the others follow.

I know that most agencys are pi***d off that SQ continues told hold back big chunks of prime inventory to sell themselves at prices the agencys can not meet unless accepting virtually no comm's.

If more agency's follow FC's position as l predict, then SQ will be forced into a corner with no where to run except relent to a fair playing field.

The question is, will FC hold their ground or cave.

SQ's biggest problem here is that Thai, CP and JAL's contracts are also soon up for renewal. If one of them is smart with FC the whole ballpark could change, especially if it was CP.

I think out of all of this SQ has more to lose than FC. Regardless how any of this works out.

FC has said in the press in the last day or so that they will continue to sell them but on a non preferred basis which basically means their fares are moved right down the bottom of the fare search engine, making it missed most often, its not offered as a first option by staff, no SQ packages/sale fares will be advertised and their fares will be excluded from any expos etc.

I agree that SQ has alot more to lose out of this than FC, its not all that hard to convince most clients to switch airlines, be it by suggesting a similar airline is much cheaper (whether it is or isnt) or by flooding the market with deals utilising other carriers such as MH, TG etc.

Shall be interesting to see how it plays out.

TG

 

[harvyk]

As someone who is a valued client of FC (I don't need their number on speed dial, I know it off by heart) I received the following email from FC.


Dear harvyk,

SINGAPORE AIRLINES UPDATE​

I write to update you on a change in our relationship with Singapore Airlines.
Importantly, this change will not affect you or the service you receive from Flight Centre Business Travel.
Basically, Singapore Airlines is no longer one of our 40 preferred airline partners in Australia.
We will, of course, maintain a relationship with Singapore Airlines and will continue to sell a full range of airfares, including Singapore Airlines' fares.
This will ensure you continue to receive the best options to suit your company's individual needs.
As mentioned previously, this change in our relationship will have no impact on our customers.
If you have any concerns or questions, please do not hesitate to contact your Travel Manager.

Shannon O'Brien
Executive General Manager.

 

[Keith009]

I know that most agencys are pi***d off that SQ continues told hold back big chunks of prime inventory to sell themselves at prices the agencys can not meet unless accepting virtually no comm's.

SQ does some funky stuff with their inventory management and "market logic" controls. When trying to get seats on Sabre (and i'm told this also happens on other GDS by people who have Amadeus), even if an SQ flight shows all 9 when you search for availability, the flight can come back 'unconfirmed' when you try to book it if SQ deems that they're not going to get enough yield from the fare you're trying to book. This is even when using 'direct connect' availability - ie going into the SQ system itself to retrieve availability as the stuff they put on Sabre might not have been updated in real time. A real PITA to say the least. And on some fares it seems they deny inventory by default.

And I'm talking about perfectly legit fares where SQ and the related class of service and applicable sector are clearly spelt out in the fare rules. For instance I was trying to do a QF/BA fare to KUL with the SIN-KUL portion operated by SQ. SQ would not confirm me no matter which flight I tried (and they were all wide open). In the end I couldn't be stuffed trying to get around the issue and simply changed SIN-KUL to JL.

 

[zzyss]

Just recently someone here had an issue with FC + SQ, I wonder if it's at all related.

That might have been me:
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/flight-centre-stuff-up-what-17387.html

But judging from what others have said, it doesn't seem to be related at all.

As for the issue itself, I give it a bit *shrug* - I'm personally quite happy to book directly off SIA's Website, where they take amex, and don't charge a booking fee nor credit card fee.

 

[MelUser]

and that I suspect is SQ's end game - to have everyone booking on line and not using TAs.

 

[FL360]

In this day and age for simple routings, there is little reason (unless you can't read) to book via TA because the web fares are most generally cheaper, and the fares rules are usually very clear.

On the other hand when you book via a TA you won't know unless you ask which fare class your tic is on and it will take them sometime to find it. And worse still take them to confirm it..

TA is only good for complex routings such as XONEX, if the TA actually know how to book anyway, I would say 70% of agents can only preform simple routing efficiently...

 

[Travel Guru]

In this day and age for simple routings, there is little reason (unless you can't read) to book via TA because the web fares are most generally cheaper, and the fares rules are usually very clear.

On the other hand when you book via a TA you won't know unless you ask which fare class your tic is on and it will take them sometime to find it. And worse still take them to confirm it..

TA is only good for complex routings such as XONEX, if the TA actually know how to book anyway, I would say 70% of agents can only preform simple routing efficiently...

I'm curious, why would it take an agent any time at all to determine what fare class your ticket is booked into when they can't make a booking in the first place without knowing it.
If the ticket hasn't been booked, all you have to do is check a fare sheet which takes, um gee, 3 quarters of a second to read the 'fare class' section, and if it has already been booked, all you have to do is bring up the booking in the GDS and it's right in front of you.


Clearly you've never worked in the industry and are just spouting opinion which is way off the mark.


I'm also curious, what evidence do you have to backup your statement that 70% of agents can only handle a simple routings effectively??
Have you done a study, or are you just basing that on the random sample of perhaps 3-4 agents you've used in the past???


Next time don't confuse your opinions with fact, they seem to be poles apart.

TG