New status earn partner: Delta

[notzac]

So, I was pottering around the Velocity website this morning and noticed a slight change to the table showing partners that earn Status Credits:

Status and points earning fare classes are as follows:

• Reduced fat whY: L, U, T, H, Q, K
• Full fat whY: Y, B, M
• J and F: P, F, A, C, D, J, I, S

Looking forward to seeing where this develops! Given how status credits work with Velocity, YUP type fares should work out (though not quite as impressively as with AA to QF, given that J and F are bundled in together). Now I need to go take a closer look at DL fares..

 

[airtraveladdict]

So, I was pottering around the Velocity website this morning and noticed a slight change to the table showing partners that earn Status Credits:

Status and points earning fare classes are as follows:

• Reduced fat whY: L, U, T, H, Q, K
• Full fat whY: Y, B, M
• J and F: P, F, A, C, D, J, I, S

Looking forward to seeing where this develops! Given how status credits work with Velocity, YUP type fares should work out (though not quite as impressively as with AA to QF, given that J and F are bundled in together). Now I need to go take a closer look at DL fares..

Lol Notzac you are fast! I was just on the website and noticed that, came here and you already made a post

Nice, now I can book Delta on the transatlantic flights also instead of being limited to Virgin Atlantic which only departs from Heathrow and Manchester, which meant flying from rome to london to new york.

Hmm i wonder if the Economy Comfort product is considered full economy when it comes to earning SC? It is an interesting development because Delta codeshares with KLM/Air France to Europe, so I guess ill earn Velocity SC and points if that ticket has a Delta flight number and not an AF/KLM No.

In terms of US flights, it is better to fly on Delta than Virgin America, besides lounge access for gold and plat velocity members, the points earn is better on delta.
Delta
Promo (L, U, T) 0.5 Velocity Points
Discount Economy (H, Q, K) 1 Velocity Point
Economy (Y, B, M) 1.5 Velocity Points

Versus

Virgin America
Main Cabin (S, L, M, U, E, H, B, V) 0.5 Velocity Points
Main Cabin Refundable (Y) 1 Velocity Point
Main Cabin Select Instant Upgrade (Z, Q) 1 Velocity Point
Main Cabin Select (O, W) 1 Velocity Point

However I am still sad we don't get tier level bonuses

 

[cityflyer369]

Hmm i wonder if the Economy Comfort product is considered full economy when it comes to earning SC? It is an interesting development because Delta codeshares with KLM/Air France to Europe, so I guess ill earn Velocity SC and points if that ticket has a Delta flight number and not an AF/KLM No.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news.

1. I doubt that Economy Comfort will be considered full economy. AFAIK flying Economy Comfort will not give you a different booking class, just a better seat in the Economy cabin.

2. It is my understanding that you will not get SCs and points when flying codeshare with an airline that is not part of Virgin Australia's little alliance. So a TATL that is DL-coded and operated will be fine, but DL-coded and AF/KL-operated will not work.

 

[openseat]

I've been hanging out for this, it gives lots of possibilities. I just hope that Delta will give some recognition to VA Plats and Golds.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Given how status credits work with Velocity, YUP type fares should work out (though not quite as impressively as with AA to QF, given that J and F are bundled in together). Now I need to go take a closer look at DL fares..

I've never had the necessity to look at the YUP benefits that everyone rabbits on about with QF. If this now potentially helps us over here in DJland, could someone give a quick explanation of it please?

 

[cityflyer369]

I've never had the necessity to look at the YUP benefits that everyone rabbits on about with QF. If this now potentially helps us over here in DJland, could someone give a quick explanation of it please?

YUP fares are highly discounted first class fares on the US domestic market. The only special thing about them is that the fare basis looks like an Economy fare basis (such as YUP, BA00UPRN, MA00A0UP, QA14A0UP, to give some examples from Delta), but you will automatically be given a First booking class code and, as a consequence, be seated in First. Because of the First booking class code, your points and SCs should be the amount you would expect from a First class flight. The main reason why this type of fare was invented many years ago is that many companies pay only for Economy class flights. With the Economy fare basis an employee can book a flight that is technically in Economy, but the employee will be seated in First. The popularity of YUP fares among FFP status chasers stems from the facts that (a) they come with a good SC/$ ratio with most FFPs, and (b) sitting in First means, of course, you will have a pretty comfortable miles/points/status run.

So much for YUP fares. However, as far as Velocity is concerned, I doubt that YUP fares will play a major role for status runs.

 

[TimB]

YUP fares are highly discounted first class fares on the US domestic market. The only special thing about them is that the fare basis looks like an Economy fare basis (such as YUP, BA00UPRN, MA00A0UP, QA14A0UP, to give some examples from Delta), but you will automatically be given a First booking class code and, as a consequence, be seated in First. Because of the First booking class code, your points and SCs should be the amount you would expect from a First class flight. The main reason why this type of fare was invented many years ago is that many companies pay only for Economy class flights. With the Economy fare basis an employee can book a flight that is technically in Economy, but the employee will be seated in First. The popularity of YUP fares among FFP status chasers stems from the facts that (a) they come with a good SC/$ ratio with most FFPs, and (b) sitting in First means, of course, you will have a pretty comfortable miles/points/status run.

Great explanation. One point I would add is that YUP fares on AA are particularly good for QFFs, since QFF has a separate, higher SC earning rate for F compared with J. However, Velocity has the same earn rate for J and F (which is lower than QFF's F rate), so YUP fares aren't as likely to be as good value on Velocity compared with QFF.

Of course, retaining Platinum with Velocity only requires 800 SCs (plus segment requirements), while WP on QFF requires 1200 to retain, so that cancels out some of the difference.

So much for YUP fares. However, as far as Velocity is concerned, I doubt that YUP fares will play a major role for status runs.

I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind your opinion.

I've just booked a DL fare at $3/SC (or $1.50/SC thanks to the double SC offer); I expect I continue to use YUP fares, including for status runs, in future.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Thanks for the YUP explanation and excuse my ignorance, but how does one go about booking a YUP fare?

 

[TimB]

Thanks for the YUP explanation and excuse my ignorance, but how does one go about booking a YUP fare?

"I'm glad you asked."

I posted about that previously: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....redit-earn-delta-coming-32817.html#post487803

However, you can also book them on the Delta website; they're really just cheaper first class fares. What can't be done on the Delta website is booking the more complex routings that make the status run more cost effective.

 

[cityflyer369]

I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind your opinion.

1. My main reason is the point you already mentioned: Velocity does not give more SCs for First than for Business. This makes YUP fares less attractive with Velocity than with QF's program.
2. Status runs within QF's program have two functions: they allow you to keep your level (or get a higher one) AND your SCs will top up your lifetime balance (for getting status for life). With Velocity, you have only the first of the two benefits. And this raises the question of how much you are willing to pay for 1 year of status. I myself would not pay, say, AUD 800 for being Platinum instead of Gold. (And for those who have to decide between Gold and Silver, Lounge membership is an attractive option.) Things would be different if Velocity had a status-for-life feature because I would be willing to pay quite a bit to get lifetime status.
3. SQ offers quite reasonably priced full fare Economy tickets ex-Australia, to places in Asia via SIN. Assuming that the booking classes that count as "SQ full fare Economy" with Velocity will be similar to the booking classes other FFPs use for the category "SQ full fare Economy", I would expect that SQ flights will be a good alternative for people after status runs. It will be less time consuming and will save you the hassle and inconvenience of flying in the US. And Economy with SQ is not that bad an experience after all.
4. Finally Etihad has pretty good Business class deals every now and then (typically not from Australia though). This provides some good options for those who are savvy with creative routing and is an alternative to YUP runs.

So these are the reasons why I believe that YUP fares will not be as relevant for Velocity members as they are for those who fly with the other airline.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Thanks to Tim and Cityflyer.

That's quality information from both of you and I very much appreciate the shove in the right direction.

I'm wondering if these comments/posts may be better suited in the "Virgin Status Run Master Thread" so we can easily find them for reference later?.

 

[pshepvic]

By the way, one more tip for those not familiar with YUPs ... It is still considered a full economy fare by the airline based on the price you pay (the full name is usually "instant upgrade" - meaning you pay for Y but are instantly upgraded on booking, rather than purchasing an actual First fare), so make sure you have decent connection times (as more often than not you'll be flying two sectors through a hub, unless your destination is of course the hub!). One of the "problems" with these fares, is if you miss a flight, when you are rebooked on to a later flight, you may not be seated in the F cabin. Qantas will give you the points and SCs based on the original booking, and my assumption would be that Virgin will as well, however you may miss out on the F seat and service if the cabin is full on the next flight.

And remember whilst an hour connection may seem like a fair bit to connect between two domestic flights, remember the hub airports like ATL (for Delta) or DFW (for AA) are massive and it can take you half an hour to get between gates!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

By the way, one more tip for those not familiar with YUPs ...

Thanks for that. So are YUPs really for "those in the know" or does everyone know about them and getting the YUP fares are difficult?

 

[straitman]

Thanks for that. So are YUPs really for "those in the know" or does everyone know about them and getting the YUP fares are difficult?

A lot of people don't seem to know about them but they are not a secret.

 

[notzac]

Thanks for that. So are YUPs really for "those in the know" or does everyone know about them and getting the YUP fares are difficult?

There's definitely an art to constructing YUPP / KUPP bookings - but they're by no means secret. Having things like Expert Flyer, in some cases a good travel agent, plenty of patience (for reading up on the requirements and making the booking) and finally some luck (for actually flying the sectors you've booked without disruption) will make for a successful status run.

From what I can see, DL YUPP runs aren't nearly as cheap as AA, at least in terms of $$ required per SC earnt. That said, you don't need quite so many SCs to requalify. I'm undecided as to whether this is a good thing or a bad thing..

 

[JB007]

One thing that I am keen to try on our 6 leg trip next Feb is the use of the standby upgrades. If you have any booking class apart from the LUT buckets you can apply for these at checkin. If there is a spare F seat after all the Medallions have got their upgrades then you get the seat. Prices vary per sector length but a LAX > JFK leg is $200 per person. I should point out that it would be extremely unlikely to get it on this leg as there are usually a lot of Medallions onboard. We have JFK > MIA and MIA > MEM legs so hopefully we will have some luck with these. One thing I dont understand is that we have booked it all on one ticket (MEL- SYD - LAX - JFK - MIA -MEM - LAS - LAX - SYD - MEL) and I wanted to upgrade the domestic legs to a Y, B or M ticket to make the most of the Instant Upgrade but our travel agent said we had to do so to the international legs as well which nearly tripled the cost. Does this sound right, should I just call Delta and try to upgrade the ticket class through them? Never tried to do it before so apologies if a stupid question

 

[cityflyer369]

One thing that I am keen to try on our 6 leg trip next Feb is the use of the standby upgrades. If you have any booking class apart from the LUT buckets you can apply for these at checkin. If there is a spare F seat after all the Medallions have got their upgrades then you get the seat. Prices vary per sector length but a LAX > JFK leg is $200 per person. I should point out that it would be extremely unlikely to get it on this leg as there are usually a lot of Medallions onboard. We have JFK > MIA and MIA > MEM legs so hopefully we will have some luck with these. One thing I dont understand is that we have booked it all on one ticket (MEL- SYD - LAX - JFK - MIA -MEM - LAS - LAX - SYD - MEL) and I wanted to upgrade the domestic legs to a Y, B or M ticket to make the most of the Instant Upgrade but our travel agent said we had to do so to the international legs as well which nearly tripled the cost. Does this sound right, should I just call Delta and try to upgrade the ticket class through them? Never tried to do it before so apologies if a stupid question

Your travel agent might be right. It all depends on the fares that were used to construct your itinerary.
In your case, for example, you could have
- one fare component for the trip from MEL to MIA (leading to the itinerary MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK-MIA)
- one fare component for the trip from MIA to MEL (leading to the itinerary MIA-MEM-LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL).
If this is the case, your US domestic flights would be tied to the international legs. You could only upgrade MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK-MIA in one go. And MIA-MEM-LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL in one go.

If, however, your itinerary has been constructed in a different way, such as
- one fare component for the trip from MEL to JFK (leading to the itnerary MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK)
- one fare component for the trip from JFK to MIA (JFK-MIA)
- one fare component for the trip from MIA to LAS (MIA-MEM-LAS)
- one fare component for the trip from LAS to MEL (LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL),
you could upgrade JFK-MIA and MIA-MEM-LAS without affecting the international segments.

So it all depends on how your travel agent constructed your itinerary. Unless you gave them some specific input, they will just have chosen the cheapest combination of possible fare components.

 

[JB007]

Your travel agent might be right. It all depends on the fares that were used to construct your itinerary.
In your case, for example, you could have
- one fare component for the trip from MEL to MIA (leading to the itinerary MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK-MIA)
- one fare component for the trip from MIA to MEL (leading to the itinerary MIA-MEM-LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL).
If this is the case, your US domestic flights would be tied to the international legs. You could only upgrade MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK-MIA in one go. And MIA-MEM-LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL in one go.

If, however, your itinerary has been constructed in a different way, such as
- one fare component for the trip from MEL to JFK (leading to the itnerary MEL-SYD-LAX-JFK)
- one fare component for the trip from JFK to MIA (JFK-MIA)
- one fare component for the trip from MIA to LAS (MIA-MEM-LAS)
- one fare component for the trip from LAS to MEL (LAS-LAX-SYD-MEL),
you could upgrade JFK-MIA and MIA-MEM-LAS without affecting the international segments.

So it all depends on how your travel agent constructed your itinerary. Unless you gave them some specific input, they will just have chosen the cheapest combination of possible fare components.

Sounds logical, thanks for the explanation. It was a price match from delta.com where I had it as:

MEL - JFK with 2 stops
JFK - MIA
MIA - MEM
MEM - LAS
LAS - MEL with 2 stops

Interestingly all are in K class as per my settings on delta.com but the JFK - MIA flight is in U class so it does seem possible to have different ticket classes on multiple leg tickets. As it was a price match I think that my travel agent just picked the cheapest for her as she wasn't the best TA to deal with and wasn't too thrilled about having to price match.

I have also found a Fare Class Chart for Delta which explains all of the various fare buckets and which is upgradeable and isn't. Hope it is of some help to some people:

Delta Airlines Fare Class Chart

 

[cityflyer369]

Sounds logical, thanks for the explanation. It was a price match from delta.com where I had it as:

MEL - JFK with 2 stops
JFK - MIA
MIA - MEM
MEM - LAS
LAS - MEL with 2 stops

Interestingly all are in K class as per my settings on delta.com but the JFK - MIA flight is in U class so it does seem possible to have different ticket classes on multiple leg tickets. As it was a price match I think that my travel agent just picked the cheapest for her as she wasn't the best TA to deal with and wasn't too thrilled about having to price match.

http://cwsi.net/delta.htm

Ok. This should give you quite some flexibility. However, there is one more obstacle that you might encounter. Often there are restrictions of booking classes you can combine in a single ticket. K class, for example, is one of DL's medium cheap Economy fares. It could be that K class cannot be combined, on the same ticket, with rather high booking classes of other fare components.
For finding this out, you or your travel agent would have to look at the details of the fare conditions that come with the specific fare basis codes that were used for all your other fare components.

 

[random111]

JB007 how did you go with your upgrades?

I'm trying to get my TA who I booked the tickets through to upgrade for me but they are unresponsive!!

I hate TA's, the only reason I used one for this is because the wife had a voucher for flight centre that we had to use.

When I log into my trip>itinerary>change flights i see the four flights I have for my USA trip. When i check the boxes next to the flights and select first/business as the class, it doesnt allow me to select first/business on the same flights i have, but it does allow me select them on different flight numbers e.g. NYC to LAS instead of the 5.55, which is the one i have booked, I can change my flight to the 4.15 in business class c.

Is there anyway I can get class P, I or any other YUP fares without my travel agent??

Edit: It doesnt even let me do the above on my booking, I mistakingly was in my brother's booking when I tried this. He bought his tickets directly from Delta. However I still cant select P or I class on his when I select change flights...