US or Europe with toddler.

[GarrettM]

Hi all.
I've been scraping together a few VFF points since October, and the wife has now come onboard with my "crazy" dream of an overseas holiday in April/May of 2017.
Sadly I won't have enough to do full award redemptions all in J. But there'll be enough for at least the long haul legs in J. At least one way. The rest would either be Y or PE, a mix of points and cash.
We would need to do it by the date specified before our daughter turns 2, and therefore becomes a fee paying passenger.

Disclaimer: we are both J class virgins. No status to speak of.

Pretty sure Europe is slightly better value points wise, through EY. I've read enough to see their J product is pretty good.
US would be through VA/SQ I guess.

By the time we're ready to book I'd have 350-400k points. Not a ton I know, but as mentioned time is a factor.

Mostly here I am looking for relative experience of travelling through either continent with a young child. Obviously US is somewhat homogenous compared to Europe. Less language issues (you'd hope). Slightly more familiar.
But Europe - the Western part I mean - is reasonably straightforward. And train travel is easy as, and probably more suitable for bub. She's generally pretty cruisey.

As far as possible destinations, US would be LA, SFO, Chicago, New Orleans, NY.
Europe - Amsterdam, Paris, UK, Munich, Italy.

It's a bit of a no-lose decision I know, but what would you do?

 

[scaredeycat]

I would go to New Zealand. Long haul with little kids is hard work-they will be jet lagged for days afterwards, as if the flights themselves won't be tiring enough. The scenery is as good as anywhere in the world and although there aren't any Disneyland like attractions a destination like Queenstown still has plenty to keep kids entertained. Save your points for when they're older.

 

[mark4217]

Oh, the beauty of flying long haul with a 2yo, enjoy!!

 

[cjd600]

Go to the place you'd enjoy most.

Don't be put off by flying long-haul with a toddler.
Miss 7 has been to the USA on 5 holidays, and Miss 5 has been 3 times, with our trips alternating between J awards and paid Y depending on circumstance.
We have had no issues on flights....just need good strategies to keep the little one amused and settled.
We enjoy the USA - 'easy' (easier than Europe with a stopover) flight for us from SYD.
Easy to get around the USA via car.
No language barrier.
Good accommodation options, nice to have a one bedroom hotel (e.g. Embassy Suites, Homewood Suites) when travelling with a little one, so they can sleep early in one room and you can be in the other, rather than all in one room ,lights off...sssshhhh...
Those points should be enough to get you from east coast AUS to west coast USA return in J, so that's a plus rather than only one way in J as per Europe.

Its no lose as you say, but we keep getting drawn back to the States with our 2 young ones, maybe Europe when they're older.

 

[get me outta here]

I observe that Americans (sweeping statement coming up), are respectful and polite to children and engage with them. It seems a positive experience for all involved.

 

[knasty]

As an aside, one decent credit card signup bonus for each of you would topup your balance to over 500k and therefore sufficient for Europe return in J on EY. That would be a far better outcome than mixed class, particularly when travelling with a toddler.

 

[UP4014]

My personal choice; US, the 2yo won't remember except via the photos and I always have fun in SF. Europe doesn't really do it for me and is more time on the plane.


Matt

 

[thehound]

Since you're based in Perth, either option is going to be minimum 2 flights. I would personally go for Europe since that's a bit quicker, plus will incite less jet lag due to less time difference.

We're currently living in Toronto and have our son with us. When we left Australia in April last year he was 15 months old. We drove around New England for 3 months before arriving in Toronto, and have since been on multiple trips. The first week after arriving in New York was tiring since he was full of energy at 2am, and it took a full week to adjust his body clock. Unfortunately there's no changing that process with a toddler like you might as an adult - if they're awake in the middle of the night, one of you has to be too! If you're only going on a 2 week holiday then the extra couple of days you might get with a 7 hour vs 12 hour time difference might be invaluable.

In terms of US and Europe, I'd choose Europe. Apart from the above reasons, the food and coffee is far superior in Europe IMHO. Plus your locations look great

The only other tip I can give you is that for any long haul flights, do them overnight, not during the day. Overnight in J you'll be able to put your little one down for a sleep in a bassinet (depends of their age and size) or on the seat, but if you do a long haul flight during the day it'll be a very long day entertaining them on the plane.

 

[GarrettM]

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions.

It seems if this DOES happen, it'll be happening in the US.

If plans become more solid in coming months I will move my questions into the destination guide forum.

Cheers!

 

[cove]

Sign up your work colleagues on Amex Velocity 80,000 deal and bank up to 400,000 Velocity points for the two of you.
Then convert those points to Kris Miles (losing a third) and go Saver Miles redemption.
Stop in Singapore to shorten the length of the trip at an airport hotel. Crowne Plaza Changi works for us but there would be lower cost choices at that airport.
Really good to hear your partner is on board.
Mrscove could give you ideas on travelling with a young child as we did it often to the US.

 

[Quickstatus]

It would be difficult to travel long haul with a "lap baby"

Bassinets can be more of a issue, as with any seat bassinets are a request only. And you may find nonbaby passengers occupying bassinet row (happened to us - which is one reason we try not to fly AC unless no choice) They have a weight limit for use. Make sure your toddler is under that weight otherwise you may not be allowed to use if the FA thinks yours is a bit chuppa chupp (happened to us)

Additionally, when seatbelt sign comes on you are required to take toddler out of bassinet even if you have just managed to stop their screaming and tucked toddler in (happened to us)

Some airlines wont give out bassinets if they think your toddler can sit up

strongly suggest buying a child seat for toddler and slowing down And breaking up the journey. Stop over in SIN if heading to europe or HNL if heading to USA, though most would think head straight into LAX better option than stopping in HNL


Velocity has upgrade option with points and cashcalled UpgradeMe

here is a link to bassinet weight limits:
http://www.flyingwithababy.com/2013/02/detailed-airline-bassinet.html

After our lap baby experience with AC we decided to fly with said toddler in purchased child seat. Additionally we bought a narrow car seat and informed airline we wished to use car seat on plane. Most car seats are airline approved but you need to check first. Benefit is that toddler can sit nicely in familiar car seat, you can use car seat in rental car too. FAA recommendation too and safer in an emergency.

Here is a starting point:
http://havebabywilltravel.com/2014/10/20/using-car-seats-planes/

Do lots of research, expect that your expectations wont be met. Eg Nappies- your carry on should be full of nappies. How much is enough.

 

[cove]

Pre 1994 we travelled in economy but bought 3 seats to accommodate our young son. Someone tried to grab that seat and the flight attendant had to explain that we had paid for 3 seats.
I think there is still a good deal on most airlines to buy a seat for an infant.

 

[Quickstatus]

That's why when we buy 3 seats for a 2+1 toddler or 2 +1 comfort seat we make sure the comfort seat or toddler seat is between us.

 

[thehound]

To the OP: how many months old will your child be at the time you're proposing to travel?

 

[GarrettM]

To the OP: how many months old will your child be at the time you're proposing to travel?

Looking to get in before she turns two at the end of May 2017. April/May being the most likely travel period.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

We would need to do it by the date specified before our daughter turns 2, and therefore becomes a fee paying passenger.



It's a bit of a no-lose decision I know, but what would you do?

Well in my case what I actually did....

Daughter turned 2 on the day we flew out. So she had two second birthdays



Memory wise:
* I hold no truck with waiting till kids get older before you travel. Even if they do not remember, you and your wife will and what grand memories they are.
* Travelling with young kids really allows you to engage with the locals as they are a great shared talking point. You have experiences that you never have when travelling as adults. And the younger the child, the more "doors" and conversations that open.
* For years afterwards our daughter could still remember kissing Mickey Mouse on the nose and the "men on strings" ( mountain climbers at Yosemite National Park)
* A year back my eldest daughter flew off to spend Xmas/New in San Francisco with some friends she had met in Europe. At the time her Facebook Cover Photo was one of her as a 2 year old running into my arms at Fisherman's Wharf with Alcatraz in the background. She had used this as a cover pic off and on over many years and I had assumed that she had brought it back due to her trip. I mentioned this to her and she did not realise it was taken in San Franciso, though she knew it was a travel pic. She just used it as she loeved the pic. I used street view to pinpoint the location within metres (I matched up the bolts in the timber fence which hada randomised pattern) and she took great delight in re-visiting where she had been 2 decades prior, as did her new San Franciscan friends. This brought the memories flooding back for me, and allowed my daughter to re-experience some of her past.

The Trip:
*We flew in Y to LAX (I was surpised when we landed that all the announcements seemed to mainly be in Spanish!).
*Did Disneyland and Movieworld. Using the "Unofficial Gide to Disneyland" was a great help as it introduced us to the "Baby-shuffle" which saves a lot of queuing time while allowing both parents to still experience adult rides that 2 year old cannot. has lots of tips on maximising your experience. One useful tip was to book a hotel opposite Disneland so that that at lunch you walked back to it fora chill out and a swim before heading back for another stint over the late afternoon /evening. If you tried to stay the full day it would be too much witha 2 year old. But as two trips it was great.
* Took a bus trip down to San Diego to visit Seaworld. Bus driver on hearing we were Australian us us to try and spot the Australian plant growing in the road reserve on the trip down. I looked out the window and saw nothing but Australian natives in eucalypts, callistemons etc....!!! turns out he only meant the pigface which had just been introduced to minimise fire hazards and did not at all realise that the rest of the vegetation also came from auastrlia originally.
* Hired an RV for a week to take in driving up the coast and staying at places like Morro Bay Sate Park, Yosemite NP, some old gold mining towns and finishing in San Francisco. The RV allowed us to go at our own pace and to stop and play with our daughter whenever she needed it.
* Absolutely loved San Fran where we stayed for several days.
* Flew out to Hawaii fora few days break on the way back to Austrlia where we hired a car to get around.

For the trip we used back pack to carry out daughter (it was from macpac and was the first to have a proper bushwalking harness and waist belt which meant you could carry a child upto 4 years of age in comfort. Kids love them as they are up high, can see everything and are close to dad/mum.


PS: One benefit of travelling with a 2 year old on the west Coast of the USA is that I enjoy milk coffee and unfortunately americans instead of milk use "dairy creamers" which I find hideous. Trying to get milk in my coffee at many locations was difficult till I cottoned on to just ordering two black coffees and a glass of milk for our two year old!!! Nothing was too much trouble for a cute 2 year old, when for two adults request for milk in your cofee would just gain blank looks

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Travelling with a 2 year old creates memories that last forever...including this special frozen moment in San Francisco.

 

[thehound]

Looking to get in before she turns two at the end of May 2017. April/May being the most likely travel period.

If your daughter will be almost 2, then she definitely won't be able to fit in a bassinet. The bassinets are really only designed for infants up to around 9 months, maybe 12 months, depending on their height and weight. But almost 2 will definitely be out.

For example, Etihad's policy is max 10kg or 10 months. Singapore's bassinets have max weight of 14kg but are only 76cm long.

When we travelled in April 2015 with our 15 month as a lap infant, CX PER-HKG was in J, and HKG-JFK was in F. The day time HKG flight worked out well since there were extra J seats, so the CX staff were happy for us to put one of the spare J seats in bed mode and put him down for a sleep. The JFK flight was unfortunately full in F. He slept for 12 hours on my wife's flatbed, but fortunately she is slim so she was able to sleep next to him. When she was awake and he was asleep it did make it less comfortable for her though due to her bedfellow hogging the real estate

You should also be aware that the cost of adding the infant on is different depending on which airline you go with. For example, I think that Etihad will add the infant to your award booking and only charge you taxes, but in contrast Singapore charges 10% of the adult fare. So if flying business with SIA the infant fare can be 4 figures!

If you're lucky enough to be in a cabin with extra J seats then you'll be fine; but of course you can't know this until you step on the plane. If the cabin is full then the long haul flights might be uncomfortable, as you'll either have your daughter on your lap for extended periods, or have her sleeping in your J bed, leaving you standing up or sitting on the edge...

I also agree with Quickstatus that breaking up the journey is a must. Pushing through two flights and 24 hours flying with an infant requires some serious fortitude! Especially since she'll be almost 2 - a 2yo simply won't sit in a chair for 24 hours straight.

 

[cove]

I am thinking you should try a short run to an Australian destination as a tester before you book into the long haul.

 

[GarrettM]

I am thinking you should try a short run to an Australian destination as a tester before you book into the long haul.

Funny you should say that cove! We're actually heading to Melbourne in a couple of months which will give us a better idea of her temperament. I'll be sure to put together a trip report of the experience, including our infant wrangling endeavours.

She did flew from Perth to Esperance last month and by all reports was a delight for passengers and crew.
But that was only 90 minutes or so.