No Show Fee?

[Cristella]

Hi,

I am planning on flying from London to Sydney next year. I noticed the cost of a one way ticket is much more expensive, in some cases, I have seen it double the price of a return flight!

If I booked a return flight and was a "no show" for the leg back to London, would I be charged any no show fees? I have looked at a few airlines that I would consider flying with and I can't find anything in the terms and conditions about any charge. However, I read elsewhere on this board that sometimes people get charged for doing this.


Thanks.

 

[serfty]

Hi Cristella, welcome to AFF.

Generally, most fare rules have clauses that for such a no show, the passenger has not complied with the fare's T&C and the cost can be recalculated on a one-way basis and the no showing passenger can be charged any difference.

In practice, apparently additional collection actually occurring is rare.

So, if you do do what you suggest, be prepared for the remote possibility of being required to pay additional costs.

 

[ejb]

Hi Cristella,

Have you considered making the return date 11 months in the future and by then you may want to use it and would only then be subject to rules relating to changing of the date.

Just my thought.....

ejb

 

[Cristella]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the welcome

Serfty, are you aware of any airlines that turn a blind eye?

Ejb, I want to book my flight back to OZ for Aug 2010, so I can't even book that far in advance at this stage. Highly doubt I would be able to go back overseas a year later.

I got a stupidly cheap flight to LA, and a free flight to London using my FF points, so now all I have yet to book is the return trip home to OZ, hence the need for a one way flight (but preferring the return flight prices).

I usually fly Premium Economy, so I am restricted to a select few airlines.

 

[N860CR]

If you want to cover yourself, I guess you could "miss" the flight (ie turn up at the airport after it leaves or something) and the airline will go too bad, you've missed it, you lose the fare. Then pretend to cry, have a scream and go "I'm going to fly Singapore Airlines home!" then leave the airport.

 

[Dave Noble]

I usually fly Premium Economy, so I am restricted to a select few airlines.

Have you considered premium economy on Air Asia X

London (STN) - KUL is GBP489 ( approx $978 )
KUL-MEL is MYR1,270 (approx ( approx $437 )

Premium economy from UK to Oz for $1415 and just need a flight up to Sydney plus doesn't need any pretence of purchasing a r/t ticket

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

Have you considered premium economy on Air Asia X

If they do keep with their plan of replacing the XL seats with lie flat beds it will be even better

 

[Dave Noble]

If they do keep with their plan of replacing the XL seats with lie flat beds it will be even better

I believe that the STN flights are ones that have the ex-Canadian airbusses with a 60" pitch

Their premium economy fares seem v good value

Dave

 

[Cristella]

Have you considered premium economy on Air Asia X

London (STN) - KUL is GBP489 ( approx $978 )
KUL-MEL is MYR1,270 (approx ( approx $437 )

Premium economy from UK to Oz for $1415 and just need a flight up to Sydney plus doesn't need any pretence of purchasing a r/t ticket

Dave

I haven't heard of them before, just checked out their site. I noticed the flight times would require a 1-night stopover... I would rather just have a direct flight as I prefer to not have stopovers, although I will keep them in mind (what's their reputation like anyway)?

If I booked a return on VA, could I still accrue FF points for the first leg, even when being a no show for the second leg? If I remember correctly FF points are awarded soon after the first leg, so I guess my question is would they deduct them?

 

[Dave Noble]

I haven't heard of them before, just checked out their site. I noticed the flight times would require a 1-night stopover... I would rather just have a direct flight as I prefer to not have stopovers, although I will keep them in mind (what's their reputation like anyway)?

Ah yes. I see that the MEL flight is a civilised daytime service ex KUL. There is another option of flying to the Gold Coast and there is then a 2hr 25 min connection at KL for that

I have a friend who uses Air Asia and has no issues with them and finds them ok. If I was wanting a cheapish ticket to/from the UK I would definitely go for their premium economy meself

Looking at other carriers, the one way fares dont seem that expensive ; in june QF/BA start at GBP468 one way inc taxes; roundtrip tickets seem to start at GBP779 with Korean and GBP799 with QF/BA. For July EY is GBP561 one way so still cheaper than the cheapest r/ts

Dave

 

[Cristella]

Ah yes. I see that the MEL flight is a civilised daytime service ex KUL. There is another option of flying to the Gold Coast and there is then a 2hr 25 min connection at KL for that

I have a friend who uses Air Asia and has no issues with them and finds them ok. If I was wanting a cheapish ticket to/from the UK I would definitely go for their premium economy meself

Looking at other carriers, the one way fares dont seem that expensive ; in june QF/BA start at GBP468 one way inc taxes; roundtrip tickets seem to start at GBP779 with Korean and GBP799 with QF/BA. For July EY is GBP561 one way so still cheaper than the cheapest r/ts

Dave

[FONT=&quot]Yes, the gold coast looks like a more reasonable option then to avoid a stopover. Where did you find those prices for QF/BA? Cheapest I have seen on the BA site for one way was GBP940 in premium economy, am I looking in the wrong area? [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Also, which airline does EY stand for?

Thanks for your help![/FONT]

 

[notzac]

Also, which airline does EY stand for?

Etihad Airways: Gateway Page

 

[ozbeachbabe]

EY is the two letter code for Etihad Airways based in Abu Dhabi in the UAE.

I have never seen in my lifetime an airline that has charged someone a noshow fee in the instance where a return flight is forfeited. I think a noshow fee is more likely to be charged when you miss a flight and try to to rebook a flight utlilising that same ticket.

How can an airline legally charge you without you authorising the charge anyway. It would be a bit cheeky of them when they get to keep your money for the return sector you didn't use. In fact they could double dip if they wanted and by that I mean they have your money for the flight you forfeited plus they have the opportunity to sell the seat again and collect another fare.

I realise they wouldn't know in advance you're going to noshow until they close the flight about one hour prior to departure, however in peak periods when airlines overbook or have commercial standby passengers there are many times when there will be no spare seats on a plane ie they are not worse off but actually gain by you not showing up.

I suppose you could always ring reservations prior to your return date to advise them you won't be travelling so they can cancel your booking and have an opportunity to resell the seat. Don't know whether this would be the best option for you as it gives the airline a heads up of your intentions so might be better to just noshow.

EJB had a good idea in advising you to book a date 11 months down the track. What about just before Christmas or some other important family occasion just in case you get homesick and want to come home. In almost all cases you have to specify a date for the return sector so the ticket can be issued ie can't have an open dated return ticket.

It also looks better for immigration purposes for the UK assuming you're not travelling on a UK/EC passport if you hold a return ticket as it proves you have a means of leaving their country and won't be a burden to society.

I have seen people on one-way tickets from Aus to London get an additional flight ex London eg to Dublin included on their ticket as a lot of European cities are common-rated with London (you'd have to pay departure taxes etc though) so they can prove they have a reservation out of the UK at a later date.

Don't forget to think outside the circle when it comes to buying a ticket from Oz to Europe. Jetstar recently had ticket ex Darwin to Singapore for $80.00 one way including taxes or Darwin to Ho Chi Minh for $99.00 plus taxes. A lot of the time it's cheaper to buy a ticket ex Asia to London/Europe separately through a local travel agent in Asia.

You would want to book and pay for this through the agent before leaving Oz because you don't want to lob in Singapore, Bangkok or wherever without an onward ticket out of their country or they might not let you in or even worse send you back to Oz! Why not get a copy of Saturday's New Straits Times Newspaper from Singapore and check out the prices of airfares.

Good luck with all the planning.

Cheers

Oz

 

[Dave Noble]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, the gold coast looks like a more reasonable option then to avoid a stopover. Where did you find those prices for QF/BA? Cheapest I have seen on the BA site for one way was GBP940 in premium economy, am I looking in the wrong area? [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Also, which airline does EY stand for?

Thanks for your help![/FONT]

The fares I mentioned for BA/QF/EY were for economy not premium economy

In June the oneway fare on BA in WT+ is around the GBP1000 mark

Dave

 

[serfty]

... I have never seen in my lifetime an airline that has charged someone a noshow fee in the instance where a return flight is forfeited. I think a noshow fee is more likely to be charged when you miss a flight and try to to rebook a flight utlilising that same ticket. ...

I have never seen this either.

Note this excerpt from the oneworld Explorer (xONEx) Rules:

"For partially used transportation the refund if any will be the difference between the fare paid and the fare for the transportation used less the penalty amount specified in (1) above.". Presumably should the fare for the "transportation used"* be greater than that originally paid them additional collection may be requested. Whether this happens or no is another issue.

* (e.g. a series of one way J flights for a partially travelled DONEx)

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Serfty

For partially used transportation the refund if any will be the difference between the fare paid and the fare for the transportation used less the penalty amount specified in (1) above.". Presumably should the fare for the "transportation used"* be greater than that originally paid them additional collection may be requested. Whether this happens or no is another issue

I'm fairly certain this paragraph is for the purposes of a refund where the travel you undertake is minimal and allows the airline to arrive at a figure that enables them to refund an amount back to pax eg:

Someone bought a hypothetical RTW fare in J for travel SYD/HKG/LON/NYC/LAX/HNL/SYD say total fare AUD8,000.00 with a clause that there is a cancellation fee of AUD250.00 applicable after any fare for travel already undertaken has been deducted.

Say pax travels SYD/HKG only then for whatever reason cancels trip thereafter. The airline assesses the fare for travel undertaken - in this hypothetical case one way J class fare of AUD1500.00 subtotal of AUD6,500.00 owing to pax less canx fee of AUD250.00 giving the remainder of AUD6,250.00 back to pax as a refund.

In cases where the fare travelled after being reassessed exceeds what pax has paid ie pax travelled SYD/HKG/LON/NYC then cancelled, the one way fares which would be applied may total AUD10,000.00 thereby nil refund due to pax.

The refund notice would come back to pax or travel agent as nil refund due - end of story. They wouldn't then say you owe us AUD2,000.00. I'm sure they would like to but legally the airline couldn't get away with it IMHO.

I remember during the Pilots dispute in 1989 people trying to fly SYD/PER on the Qantas international flight that went on to Harare. The only time you could fly Qantas within Oz back then was if that flight formed part of an international journey eg SYD/PER/SIN/SYD. People (mainly corporate pax) actually forked out for the whole ticket in order to get to Perth only, then applied for a refund on the rest of it. There was some cancellation fee for this scenario but I don't believe the airline actually applied it when push came to shove. I'm happy to stand corrected here.

Cheers

Oz

 

[serfty]

That rule is silent on penalty if the oneway flights cost more, however as you no longer fulfil the fare conditions they can in theory charge the extra amount if the oneway fares for the flights taken add up to more than the original fare.

Will this be charged in practice? Probably not, certainly if you don't bring attention to it.

If for example, the fare was booked through a travel agent, in theory, the ticketing airline could issue a debit memo to the agent who would then chase you for the costs you've incurred them.

Again, it is unlikely for any of that to occur. In fact I have came across no evidence/anecdotes of it actually happening.

 

[harvyk]

It's certainly an interesting one.

I highly doubt they would be able to hit you with a bill, because you agreed on a return flight with them for a price (and not a one way ticket for a completely different price) and that is what you purchased. Technically speaking you still have the ticket and the seat, it's just you where not in it when the plane took off.

Nothing illegal about that, and whilst a grey area technically according to the contract, there is no law forcing a consumer to use a purchase to it's full potential.

That said, no doubt something will be marked against your name and you may find in the future the airline won't try so hard to get you an elusive last minute seat, or you'll keep losing the upgrade lottery etc...

 

[Dave Noble]

It's certainly an interesting one.

I highly doubt they would be able to hit you with a bill, because you agreed on a return flight with them for a price (and not a one way ticket for a completely different price) and that is what you purchased. Technically speaking you still have the ticket and the seat, it's just you where not in it when the plane took off.

Nothing illegal about that, and whilst a grey area technically according to the contract, there is no law forcing a consumer to use a purchase to it's full potential.
.

It isn;t a purchase of a seat, it a a contract of carriage. Based on origin and destination with dates et al, the airline offers to allow carriage based on those agreements. If you no longer abide by this they can come after the passenger/travel agent

There have been cases where people have tried to do things of the ilk of wanting to fly a-b r/t but it is cheaper to start in z and so book z-a-b-a-z and have been penalised for not flying the final a-z flight

Dave

 

[vowgs]

As an agent, we do this very frequently on routings where one way fees are ridiculously high - particularly on intra-European flights (eg. a ZRH-MIL-ZRH may be 20% of the cost of a ZRH-MIL ow). Actually a lot less complicated than what you may think.

Simply cancel the journey prior to the ticketed departure and apply for a refund. Since the fare price of a one way is higher than return, no fare refund will apply yet the airlines are required to reimburse you for unused taxes (potentially minus a refund processing fee) - so you'll actually get a little back. As you have cancelled the booking as compared to a noshow, no penalty will apply.

If you can't be bothered with the hassle, have your TA boko it. They'll set a date post-outbound journey to cancel the return leg and apply for refund. This way, if they forget and the airline wants to charge, it will be the agent receiving the ADM.