What's the point of having codeshare flights?

[ozbeachbabe]

Whilst codeshare flights have been around for awhile who actually instigated them and for what purpose?

Airlines, like any other companies are in business to make money so obviously it was a financially motivated decision - profit is not a dirty word after all!

Once upon a time when BA/QF first code shared on the Kangaroo route eg SIN/LON if it was a flight operated by BA metal but had a QF codeshare flight BA would receive 67% of the revenue & QF 33%. If QF metal but also ops as a BA codeshare flight swap the above percentages around.

Passengers when told it was a QF flight number but operated by BA or vv didn't flinch - after all they still got free meals, ff points, could through check bags, get all their boarding passes. It was very much a case of "same same, but different."

This day and age code shares seem to do more harm than good with these flights causing confusion amongst the travelling public with regard to:

* Which airline do they checkin with (marketing airline or airlines whole metal they are flying on
* Do they earn frequent flyer points or not
* Do they get meals or not
* Do they get the same baggage allowances
* Can they through check luggage or is it point to point only

In some cases it's almost a case of the 'wolf in sheeps clothing' scenario whereby people assume that if the flight prefix is for example QF, then the operating carrier will be QF. I'm sure there are many other examples with many airlines, that is just one that springs to mind.

Would be fascinating to hear your views on the subject.

 

[milehighclub]

I can tell you started it. It was our very own Qantas along with American Airlines who operated their first codeshare flight in 1990

 

[dajop]

And don't forget that not all codeshares are on other flights, there are bus, train & boat codeshares as well, and probably helicopters. Haven't heard of any tuk tuk, horse and cart or segway codeshares though.

 

[trooper]

Also some Floatplane codeshares YVR-YYJ... but the baggage allowance kills that....

I'd like to fly in to YYJ at the start of a tripo then catch the high speed ferry to Seattle....

 

[notzac]

Personally I like codeshares (especially the AA kind, when on AS (and previously when on MX )), as it means I earn a status bonus and SCs. For infrequent flyers they're probably a pain in the cough.

Also, consider things like the AA code on QF transpacs (for completing the AA Platinum challenge) and the QF code on FJ flights SYD-NAN (for access to the FLounge that the FJ code wouldn't get you).

 

[NM]

I can tell you started it. It was our very own Qantas along with American Airlines who operated their first codeshare flight in 1990

They must have picked up pretty quickly after that as I remember a QF/NZ codeshare trans-Tasman around 1990, and not too long after that I tool a NZ operated flight LAX-AKL with a QF flight number (QF101 rings a bell).

 

[NM]

The point of codeshare is the commercial benefits for both airlines. There are two general types of codeshare agreements:

• Cost and revenue sharing
• Allocation of a fixed number of seats

In the first model, the airlines share the costs and revenues in an agreed proportion. I assume this is the way the QF/BA codeshares on the Kangaroo route operate.

In the second model, each airline has a fixed number of seats assigned, even defined by cabin, and when they have sold them their codeshare is full even if the other airline still has unsold seats. In this model, it is my understanding that the non-operating airline pays a fixed amount for the seats and retains all their ticket sales revenue.

There are three major reasons for codesahring:

• An airline does not have the volume of sales on the route to justify operating their own aircraft
• The airlines want to offer greater schedule flexibility (i.e. more flight options such as QF/BA on the Kangaroo route)
• An airline wants to offer through-ticketing to more destinations (such as QF codes on AA domestic flights, or AA/BA codes on QF domestic flights) where they are not allowed or cannot justify their own operations. So its about route enhancement.

 

[markis10]

I can tell you started it. It was our very own Qantas along with American Airlines who operated their first codeshare flight in 1990

Thats not correct and a good indication of why Wiki is not a good resource, the first were operated by Skyway Airlines using BE1900s in early 1989 as a codeshare with Midwest.

 

[anat0l]

• An airline wants to offer through-ticketing to more destinations (such as QF codes on AA domestic flights, or AA/BA codes on QF domestic flights) where they are not allowed or cannot justify their own operations. So its about route enhancement.

An interesting point about through-ticketing, I do say.

Why would it provide beneficial through-ticketing. At least the members of this forum (still not those out in public) realise the advantages of through-ticketing (i.e. "one itinerary") for the reasons of connecting (both pax and bags), but in reality, if a misconnect occurs who (mutually or legally) carries the burden of rectifying the misconnect: the operating or the marketing carrier?

One of the other problems with codeshares too relates to service and liability. Some examples:

• If you receive bad service on board, who do you complain to - the operating carrier with the bad crew or the marketing carrier who selected this operating carrier to carry you on their behalf?
• Under the EU261/2004 regulations, if any assistance/compensation is payable, from which carrier do you seek redress (for cash compensation, rerouting or cancellation)?
• Remember when the AF operated flight that left CDG which carried an elderly Australian who booked on the QF codeshare flight number and died on that flight because the air conditioning broke down? Who should shoulder the blame/liability/law suit here? As far as even this board was concerned, there was no agreement as to who should be liable (I have my own views on this one...)?
• If a flight gets cancelled for any reason, what should codeshare pax do (i.e. those pax booked on the codeshare flight number)?

Some codeshares that exist must have some wily reasons behind them, e.g. a lot of popular *A routes frequently carry between 3 - 6 flight numbers on them (including the actual operating flight number).

Some carriers have good websites/maps which clearly delineate between destinations which they (themselves) operate flights to/from vs. others where they codeshare. Then there are those which do not make this distinction. The latter ones are a real source of headaches, i.e. "Where we fly..." NO! If you do not land one of your own aircraft there, you are not flying there. Simple.

QF Award tickets get interesting with codeshares, because - and I might be wrong so happy to be corrected - as long as one continues to use QF flight numbers, one can use the rates from the standard (Classic) award table. If you select a flight number of another airline, except in a few cases you are charged the higher rates of the partner award table. Again, another perversion of the normal codeshare objectives.

For FFPs, some of the headaches from codeshares are from mileage / status crediting. For most of oneworld, this is not a problem, but with Star Alliance it can be ridiculous at times. Star Alliance bases mileage credit upon the booking class in the operating carrier. You may book on the codeshare flight number which matches your FFP of choice, but the mileage you receive will be based on the class code of the operating aircraft which is mapped from the class code on your ticket from the marketing aircraft. Sometimes nothing will be different, other times you could receive less or no credit. Finding out which marketed codes map onto which operating codes is not a necessarily easy task.

Of course, the ironic flipside to this is that many of us will take advantage of codeshares in oneworld to suit our mileage earning agendas. For example, if one books a flight PER-JNB on the operating carrier's website, SA, then QFF mileage is accruable but not bonus mileage (status) or status credits. However, booking on QF's website, the codeshare, will allow QFF members to earn miles, status bonuses and status credits. Whether it is cheaper to buy a seat from the operating or marketing carrier is a totally different question.

With the advent of codeshares with LCCs - most notably at home between QF and JQ - the whole service consistency and continuity becomes even more muddier and messy.

Moral of the story: for most part, if I can book onto the metal/operating flight number, I will.

 

[sweens]

Codeshare flights can work for or against the average punter.

An example of it working against is the current CS agreement between QF & SAA on the SYD-JNB and PER-JNB route.

Its QF metal SYD-JNB & SAA metal PER-JNB therefore eliminating direct competition on those routes. Prices on routes crossing the Indian Ocean are generally higher per k flown as there is no direct alternative.

Sure VA fly MEL - JNB once or twice a week or you can fly the long way round via Singapore, KL or HK but let’s have some real competition here.

Look what four competitors on the SYD-LAX route has done for pricing.

I understand that the QF-SAA code share is currently up for review and I hope they are told to scrap it and then we can see QF & SAA actually competing for business.

 

[sweens]

Sure VA fly MEL - JNB once or twice a week or you can fly the long way round via Singapore, KL or HK but let’s have some real competition here.


I see the following ASX anouncement.

" Australia will withdraw from its loss making Boeing 777-300 services to South Africa and coughet!"

 

[NM]

Why would it provide beneficial through-ticketing. At least the members of this forum (still not those out in public) realise the advantages of through-ticketing (i.e. "one itinerary") for the reasons of connecting (both pax and bags), but in reality, if a misconnect occurs who (mutually or legally) carries the burden of rectifying the misconnect: the operating or the marketing carrier?

Its more a marketing thing. People like to purchase tickets from their favourite airline. For example, US based people who use AA and wanting to fly to say KUL are quite likely to purchase an AA ticket using the AA flight number operated by CX. This is often due to laziness or ignorance that other options exist. It also allows airlines to show more destinations in the map.

QF Award tickets get interesting with codeshares, because - and I might be wrong so happy to be corrected - as long as one continues to use QF flight numbers, one can use the rates from the standard (Classic) award table. If you select a flight number of another airline, except in a few cases you are charged the higher rates of the partner award table. Again, another perversion of the normal codeshare objectives.

Qantas Frequent Flyer program generally does not permit award redemptions using codeshare flight numbers. If you want an award using Qantas FF points on a flight operated by say BA or AA you can only book into the operating airline's flight number. They list as very few exceptions to this rule in their terms and conditions, one being flights from SYD/AKL to SCL operated by LAN. I expect this is because the codesahre agreement with LAN for these services operate on the allocated seats method described earlier.

Of course, the ironic flipside to this is that many of us will take advantage of codeshares in oneworld to suit our mileage earning agendas. For example, if one books a flight PER-JNB on the operating carrier's website, SA, then QFF mileage is accruable but not bonus mileage (status) or status credits. However, booking on QF's website, the codeshare, will allow QFF members to earn miles, status bonuses and status credits. Whether it is cheaper to buy a seat from the operating or marketing carrier is a totally different question.

I have done this taking an AA codeshare on a CX operated flight (HKG-LAX) since QFF pays a status bonus for AA flights but not for CX flights. Earned me quite a lot more QFF points than would have otherwise.

With the advent of codeshares with LCCs - most notably at home between QF and JQ - the whole service consistency and continuity becomes even more muddier and messy.

Not just LCC. Any time there is a service difference between the airlines codesharing on a flight. When BA introduced flat beds in J and QF still had Dreamtime seats, BA did not codeshare in business class on QF flights due to the poor reaction from BA passengers who were expecting flat beds. That changed when QF introduced the Skybed on the route.