Booking problems with China Southern.

[wilco]

Hi All,

Recently I made an online booking with China Southern(CZ) from MEL to PEK over the New Year period. The website offered some crazy routings like MEL-AKL-BNE-(xCAN)PEK-PER-MEL for $620 all in but the flights I chose were MEL-PER-BNE-(xCAN)PEK-PER-MEL for $630 all in. The website deducted the funds from my credit card and sent out the email with the booking references but not the e-ticket. I was then contacted by them to say that CZ advised them of a technical error and that the fare was not valid and a new fare of $930 would need to be purchased.
I have dealt with many airlines in my time, and for the most part, when there is an error the airline honours the fare. Examples of when they haven't is when the mistake has been an obvious one, ie: BA $40 fare from the US to India. The fare I purchased was slightly higher than the advertised "sale" fare of $559 so I dont think it falls into the category of being too cheap to be true.

CZ refuse to respond to emails and when they do, its a one word answer. They never answer their phones and keep you on hold for hours on end. When you finally do get through to someone, their english is almost non existant. Going into their Melbourne office, I found another passenger yelling and screaming at them because he could never get through to them, they never replied to his emails and he was annoyed that on his recent flights the only alcohol they served in economy was wine.

The question is, what can I do about it? CZ are less than interested and the website says its hands are tied.

There are provisions in the Fair Trading Act to prevent such indifferent, contemptuous behaviour, but is it worth pursuing through the Victorian Civil and Administrative tribunal?
Is it unreasonable to rebook with a more reputable airline and claim the difference from CZ? because given the experience to date, I have no intention of flying CZ. EVER.

Thoughts?

 

[NM]

Given you say you have no intention of flying with them, ever, then there is no point asking them to honour the original fare. Your only option left is to ask for a full refund of the amount charged to your credit card. If they refuse to refund the payment, and they refuse to issue the ticket, then contact your credit card company for a charge back since they have not delivered what you paid for,

 

[wilco]

Given you say you have no intention of flying with them, ever, then there is no point asking them to honour the original fare. Your only option left is to ask for a full refund of the amount charged to your credit card. If they refuse to refund the payment, and they refuse to issue the ticket, then contact your credit card company for a charge back since they have not delivered what you paid for,

They did refund the money, 2 weeks later, but its not the point. If I made a mistake with dates or misspelled my name, id have to pay all sorts of penalties. Why is it that when they make a mistake, they just get to refund the money and walk away? a contract is a contract after all. I dont see why they are entitled to bend their own rules in their favour when something doesn't suit them.

I have tried to get them to honour the fare and I would have flown them on this occasion no matter how bad the experience turned out to be. The cancellation is a blessing in disguise because I will now NEVER consider them for any future travel. The drama I have experienced with this booking and the associated customer disservice is quite astounding for a 4 star rated airline that is highly rated within Sky Team. If they are like this on the ground, I hate to image what they are like in the air.

The Fair Trading Act provides for a number of grounds on which to challenge this issue. These include unconscionable, misleading or deceptive conduct, false representations in relation to goods and services, bait advertising and accepting payment without being able to supply as ordered and given the little cost associated with VCAT, I think its worth a shot. If only to make them realise they are no longer in China and cant make problems go away by simply ignoring them.

 

[yohy?!]

Forgive me but going to fair trading will accomplish what exactly? You've suffered no loss out of this and the airline has reasonably advised you of the error and processed a timely refund. I don't see what else you could gain out of the situation apart from being lucky to have avoided a number of long and uncomfortable flights.

 

[NM]

... because given the experience to date, I have no intention of flying CZ. EVER.

They did refund the money, 2 weeks later, but its not the point.

Well you have limited your own options here. If you have no intention of ever flying with them, what is there left to persue? What is the point in forcing them to honour the original ticket price if you have no intention of flying with them?

As you state you have no intentions of flying with them, then the only option the airline has is to refund your money, which you have confirmed they did. What more do you want?

 

[wilco]

Forgive me but going to fair trading will accomplish what exactly? You've suffered no loss out of this and the airline has reasonably advised you of the error and processed a timely refund. I don't see what else you could gain out of the situation apart from being lucky to have avoided a number of long and uncomfortable flights.

It will force the airline to trade fairly. It simply cannot make up its own rules as it goes. There are fair trading laws that every trader must abide by and they include the matters I listed in a previous post. It is unacceptable to enter into a contract that you later decide isn't to your liking and just walk away. I still need to get to China and their fare for an identical itinerary for $2200. CX has a fare for $4400 and the only other fare i could find was $3200, which I booked. therefore i have suffered a loss, to the tune of $2400. Why should I be out of pocket because of their mistake??
A contract is a contract and you must abide by its terms and conditions, not change them as you see fit!

The airline has not reasonably advised me of anything. I have asked them to clarify exactly what "technical error" occurred but they refuse to answer claiming initially that it was a technical error, then that the ticket auto cancelled as the agent didnt ticket the fare in time and then reverted back to a technical error. Either way, this "technical error" was their fault and wholly avoidable, meaning they are responsible for the consequences that stem from such an error. Like I said, its not like the fare was unreasonably and illogically cheap. it was in line with their advertised fares. To make matters worse, 1 month later, they re-advertised the same fares despite their being ZERO availability.
This airline is indifferent, immoral, unscrupulous and engages in deceptive conduct of the highest order. It should be driven out of the Australian market and not allowed to return until it intends to fully abide by the laws of this country.

Ill keep you posted with the outcome of the VCAT action.

 

[wilco]

What more do you want?

Its not so much what I want, but more so what Australian Law requires. You CAN NOT cancel a contract, the terms of which you set, because they are no longer to your liking. It just doesn't work like that.
Given that they can not or will not fulfill the contract, I must engage another supplier who can and any additional expenses incurred in doing so must be born by the contracting party that cannot provide what it was contracted to provide.
They need to pay for their mistakes like everyone else.

 

[rechoboam]

I don't see what standing you would have for any action in VCAT as you have suffered no loss, aside from the notional loss of a discount that the airline claims only existed due to a technical fault.

It seems we disagree but I think you are wasting your time and money.

 

[wilco]

I don't see what standing you would have for any action in VCAT as you have suffered no loss, aside from the notional loss of a discount that the airline claims only existed due to a technical fault.

It seems we disagree but I think you are wasting your time and money.

Im happy to agree to disagree, but as I see it, the airline offered a fare for sale that was consistent with its advertising, meaning I had every right and reason to expect the fare was genuine and valid. If the fare was $60, then surely no reasonable person could expect this to be valid and if the airline honored it, then that would be a bonus. I should highlight that I mean a "reasonable" person in the legal sense and nothing more.
The fare was purchased and paid for and only then did the airline discover its technical error. I have since been forced to purchase a new fare that is $2400 more expensive than what was previously purchased, in no small part because of the time of year and the almost 2 months spent (wasted) in trying to resolve the issue with the airline directly. The loss I have incurred is therefore quantifiable and not some notional loss.

Like I said, VCAT fees are less than $40 and each party pays there own representation costs, so unlike a magistrates or county court, the potential liability of having costs awarded against you does not exist.

The thing that irks me most is that I had a similar issue with Qantas (online) where they advertised a fare for $X but no matter which dates I chose, the fare was always $Y. They looked into it for me and identified that no matter what they did, they too could not get the $Xfare. They booked the seats I needed in the fare class that applied to the $X fare and charged me $X. The difference between $X and $Y was less than $200. The point i'm making is that they recognised that they had made an error and they honored it. CZ on the other hand, well, i think the previous posts explain it ad nauseum.

Despite it potentially taking up to 16 weeks, I will let you know the outcome.

 

[globalexplorer]

Good luck with the action, I look forward to hearing what happens. Unfortunately too many people find themselves in this situation and for whatever reason (haven't actually lost any money, don't have the time or just can't be bothered with the hassle) just let sleeping dogs lie and get on with life. The downside is obviously that in some instances large companies continue to engage in conduct which may be illegal whether intentionally or unintentionally. It is typically only because someone says 'this is not right' that the conduct is reviewed by an independent umpire and, if appropriate, the conduct ceases to the benefit of all consumers. Given that the issue involves an airline (potentially misleading customers) and most members of this forum are frequent flyers I would have thought there would have been overwhelming support for the kind of action the OP is initiating?

 

[wilco]

Good luck with the action, I look forward to hearing what happens. Unfortunately too many people find themselves in this situation and for whatever reason (haven't actually lost any money, don't have the time or just can't be bothered with the hassle) just let sleeping dogs lie and get on with life. The downside is obviously that in some instances large companies continue to engage in conduct which may be illegal whether intentionally or unintentionally. It is typically only because someone says 'this is not right' that the conduct is reviewed by an independent umpire and, if appropriate, the conduct ceases to the benefit of all consumers. Given that the issue involves an airline (potentially misleading customers) and most members of this forum are frequent flyers I would have thought there would have been overwhelming support for the kind of action the OP is initiating?

quite right!!

Normally I would fall into the "cant be bothered, move on with life" category, but as you so rightly point out, it takes someone to challenge these questionable practices.

 

[haydensydney]

I agree with the OP. Seems unfair that they have retracted the fare! If they want to play in the Australian market, which from all accounts they do, they need to understand that they just can't behave this way with Australian consumers. Wouldn't a normal airline just "suck it up" and absorb the ~$400 that they lost out on, learn from the experience and make sure that their online tools are more accurate and reliable?

However - OP - why would you even want to fly with them anyway (besides the cheap nasty fare). From where I sit and from what I've heard from others - they are an awful carrier in comparison to other carriers. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise.... everything happens for a reason, right?

 

[oz_mark]

Recently I made an online booking with China Southern(CZ) from MEL to PEK over the New Year period. The website offered some crazy routings like MEL-AKL-BNE-(xCAN)PEK-PER-MEL for $620 all in but the flights I chose were MEL-PER-BNE-(xCAN)PEK-PER-MEL for $630 all in. The website deducted the funds from my credit card and sent out the email with the booking references but not the e-ticket. I was then contacted by them to say that CZ advised them of a technical error and that the fare was not valid and a new fare of $930 would need to be purchased.

Which website?

Who is the 'them' that CZ advised a technical error to.

I suspect that it is 'them' that your real beef is with.

 

[wilco]

Which website?

Who is the 'them' that CZ advised a technical error to.

I suspect that it is 'them' that your real beef is with.

"Them" is Bestflights.com.au.

When I found this fare, I checked and rechecked it a number of times by doing a new search each time as I was coordinating travel with 3 other people who had already booked their flights. I have an email trail between us over the course of a few hours showing that the fare was returned each time I did a new search until the time I booked it. The fare I chose was not the first, cheapest option either.

I'm not pretending to understand the inner workings of airline/agents but as I understand it, the airline issues the fares and the availability and the agent sells it. Any fault would therefore rest with the airline BUT I have covered my backside by making both parties co-respondents in my VCAT application.

I would also like to highlight that I do not accept their "technical error" excuse. It is way too simple to claim some random technical error and think that is an adequate reason to terminate a contract ab initio. If they responded with a detailed explanation as to why/how the technical error occurred and I agreed, then I'd let it slide, but I can't help but feel its nothing more than a blatant lie that deserves external scrutiny. If they wont provide answers directly to me in order to allay my concerns then I will force them to provide answers in VCAT.
I do not think this is an unreasonable expectation.