Do VA planes sometimes tip over?

[oliverd]

On arrival in Sydney from OOL today on VA, the flight attendants let the J pax off immediately, then held back all other pax for 3-4 minutes. On asking what the problem was, the response was that "we have to attach the rear stairs". And on asking why we all had to wait until the rear of the plane started disembarking, the (very serious) response was "if everyone starts disembarking from the front only, the weight would be uneven and the plane might tilt forward (or maybe it was backwards!!)" After an incredulous pause, I asked whether QF planes were built differently to avoid tipping over as people disembark from the front only, to be told "that's what we're told". Anyone experienced this disembarkation delay or why this policy is in place...?

 

[straitman]

On arrival in Sydney from OOL today on VA, the flight attendants let the J pax off immediately, then held back all other pax for 3-4 minutes. On asking what the problem was, the response was that "we have to attach the rear stairs". And on asking why we all had to wait until the rear of the plane started disembarking, the (very serious) response was "if everyone starts disembarking from the front only, the weight would be uneven and the plane might tilt forward (or maybe it was backwards!!)" After an incredulous pause, I asked whether QF planes were built differently to avoid tipping over as people disembark from the front only, to be told "that's what we're told". Anyone experienced this disembarkation delay or why this policy is in place...?

To what degree this is really a problem I do not know but in principle it is correct.

Qantas would not have an issue as the masses are all (sort of) moving forward at the same time rather than having half the people standing at the back and waiting for the rear stairs. It is better to be cautious rather than regretful.

 

[oz_mark]

If everyone moves forward， doesn't the nose wheel stop it tipping forward?
Or is it a problem of an empty front with everyone at the back waiting
Sent from my HTC Legend using AustFreqFly

 

[yohy?!]

Sounds like this old chest nut:

Pilot (On PA): "Folks, we're now passing the Grand Canyon. If you all look the right of the plane...."

<Everybody moves to the right windows>

Pilout (On PA): "We'll Tip Over!" <snigger>

 

[oliverd]

To what degree this is really a problem I do not know but in principle it is correct.

Makes sense, I suppose, if everyone from the middle of the plane to the back stayed where they were and and everyone in the front half had disembarked. But people would naturally start moving towards the front if the rear wasn't moving yet.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Sounds like a question for jb747 to help with.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[munitalP]

Oh please... Many airlines load pax by row number, guess what, largest number first...

 

[oz_mark]

Oh please... Many airlines load pax by row number, guess what, largest number first...

Ahh, but somewhere a safety auditor will be patting themselves on the back for identifying the risk, and making someone come up with a mitigation strategy.

 

[straitman]

Oh please... Many airlines load pax by row number, guess what, largest number first...

It certainly is a problem on some smaller types.

Is it a problem on a 737?

I don't know.


In my days in the RAAF I had a secondary duty of weight and balance which I can say was not a whole lot of fun. These days with portable computers it can be worked out a whole lot more easily.

 

[yohy?!]

A PPrune thread of some relevance: Ground Stability W&B [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

 

[markis10]

A PPrune thread of some relevance

Didnt know they existed :mrgreen:

 

[LiamR]

This is what I've been told...


If they start letting too many people off the front, the front of the aircraft will point down ever so slightly, and as a result the rear of the aircraft will be higher off the ground. Because of this the rear stairs can't reach the door.

QF don't board via the rear, so they wouldn't have this problem.

But what it dosen't explain to me is why they only started doing it after the introduction of J?

 

[medhead]

I've certainly experience deboarding being held until the rear stairs were in place pre introduction of J.

I think it is all a bit of a furphy because if row 15 starts moving then I doubt row 16 people will stand there and wait for the rear stairs.

 

[The Rok]

This is what I've been told...


If they start letting too many people off the front, the front of the aircraft will point down ever so slightly, and as a result the rear of the aircraft will be higher off the ground. Because of this the rear stairs can't reach the door.

QF don't board via the rear, so they wouldn't have this problem.

But what it dosen't explain to me is why they only started doing it after the introduction of J?

I did about 20+ Coast to Coast Y+ flights per year on VA prior to the launch of J and I can confirm that VA have ALWAYS done this. It used to bug the hell out of me, especially when I was the only PE passenger.

 

[drron]

Because they normally are at more convenient times I fly into MCY on JQ.I cant remember a time when those at the front were not exiting before the rear stairs were in place.

 

[AVC]

the (very serious) response was "if everyone starts disembarking from the front only, the weight would be uneven and the plane might tilt forward (or maybe it was backwards!!)"

Well, for a start, the aircraft can't tip forwards. The nosewheel sort of prevents that happening. If tipping backwards was an issue, they would have to disembark the rear cabins first ("sorry first class passengers, you have to wait")

If they start letting too many people off the front, the front of the aircraft will point down ever so slightly, and as a result the rear of the aircraft will be higher off the ground. Because of this the rear stairs can't reach the door.

If that were the case, after all the PAX and cargo were offloaded, the stairs still wouldn't reach the door, as the plane would sit higher on the cart.
When the forward cabins are empty, and the rear are still full, the nose will rise (by how much I don't know, but physics demands it).

This sounds like some FA being told some sort of BS, making up their own BS, or just not understanding the concept and trying to sound like they do (most likely scenario).

 

[munitalP]

Well, for a start, the aircraft can't tip forwards. The nosewheel sort of prevents that happening. If tipping backwards was an issue, they would have to disembark the rear cabins first ("sorry first class passengers, you have to wait")



If that were the case, after all the PAX and cargo were offloaded, the stairs still wouldn't reach the door, as the plane would sit higher on the cart.
When the forward cabins are empty, and the rear are still full, the nose will rise (by how much I don't know, but physics demands it).

This sounds like some FA being told some sort of BS, making up their own BS, or just not understanding the concept and trying to sound like they do (most likely scenario).

I think you have stumbled onto a new Law - the Seesaw Law - only associated with Boeings and Virgin ( ).

I must let JQ know about this when next boarding at AVV trough 2 sets of stairs and free for all - hmmm, AVC, feel like a joint Thesis?

 

[bigjobs]

i've experience this with DJ. sounds like a 'you should drink 8 glasses of water' myth

 

[LiamR]

I did about 20+ Coast to Coast Y+ flights per year on VA prior to the launch of J and I can confirm that VA have ALWAYS done this. It used to bug the hell out of me, especially when I was the only PE passenger.

Maybe they did, but they certainly wern't as upfront about it. I remember being in row 3 and standing at the L1 door shortly after the seatbelt sign turned off.

But I don't think there was a crew member in the past standing behind row three stopping all Y pax from disembarking? Am I getting my thoughts mixed?

 

[LiamR]

This sounds like some FA being told some sort of BS, making up their own BS, or just not understanding the concept and trying to sound like they do (most likely scenario).

Sounds more like some story the company has told the staff to tell the passengers, because I've had too multiple crew members tell me the same thing.