Classic Award vs Points + Pay

[scubabe]

I'm just about to make a one-way flight booking using QFF points.
Is this really correct? This seems insane to me?

Brisbane - Bundaberg one way

Classic Award booking costs 8,000 QFF points + $52 in fees & taxes etc. And I don't earn any QFF points or SC
However if I book a Red E-deal the cost is $85. Which I can convert to Points + Pay, and use 8,003 QFF points and $26.45 in fees & taxes etc. And I earn 800 QFF points and 10 SC for the booking.

Really? Truly? Am I missing something here?

Is it really better to use points + pay? That goes against everything I have read... But please bear in mind that I am a total noob to booking award seats (in fact this would be the first time I ever did it!) so maybe this isn't so surprising to everyone else... it just goes against everything I have read, that's all...

 

[TomVexille]

Yes. I think the P+P is a conversion of the available cash fare, so if there's a sale fare like the above, it can certainly be better. However in your scenario, I would just pay the $85 and save your points.

 

[medhead]

Yes, it really is better to use points plus pay for cheap economy sale fares. I've been saying this since June last year. It really is possible to get status for cheaper than a classic award. (even some don't want to believe it)

IF you don't want to spend the cash book the points plus pay.

 

[opusman]

Classic awards are bad value in economy, I don't think anyone has ever disputed this?

 

[scubabe]

Perfect! Thanks guys, will do that. I prefer to use the points rather than pay in cash for full fares, because this is a sneaky little weekend getaway that's supposed to be cheap, so using the points is important. Gives me more drinking money

I'm glad I learned something new today, I was about to book and pay full taxes, that would have been a silly move

 

[scubabe]

Classic awards are bad value in economy, I don't think anyone has ever disputed this?

Yeah, I get that, but I've heard far more often the catch cry of "don't use points + pay" so that one stood out to me more.
It's not worth a premium cabin on a short flight so economy is all I'd look at anyway.
I'd much rather spend $20 of my own cash on this flight than $50 so it's better value to me in that sense.

 

[medhead]

Classic awards are bad value in economy, I don't think anyone has ever disputed this?

It is all a matter of how much someone might want to pay in each particular currency. In this case, if one wants to spend as little cold hard cash as possible, Points plus pay is a better option.

I regularly see $219 cash vs 12000 points +$36 vs much more for P+P. Classic award is then good value, if I don't care about status or points. Even then it's marginal to pay $183 for 800 points and 10 SC

 

[Mattg]

I would personally never use points plus pay... if the value was better than a classic award then I'd just buy the ticket using money.

Points plus Pay converts the cash fare to points at a rate of about 0.8 cents per point. Occassionally this does mean that it's better value than a classic award if the cash fare is very low (e.g. during a good sale). And once you take into account the points/SC earn, then P+P in this case appears a much better option.

Just keep in mind that if you need to cancel, the penalty is much higher on a points plus pay booking than on a classic award (where the penalty I believe is 5,000 points only).

 

[medhead]

It all depends on whether someone is points rich and cash poor. As a blanket statement it is hard to agree that points plus pay must never be used. IME there are some great opportunities to be had, if one is willing to invest the time to investigate.

For example:

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Classic award[/TD]
[TD]P+P[/TD]
[TD]Cash[/TD]
[TD]Earning[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]101000+$474[/TD]
[TD]100000 (-21224) +$245[/TD]
[TD]$1041[/TD]
[TD]90SC+21224[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So 78800 points plus $245 for 90 SC, with $800 still in my pocket. And I got 2 work flights out of that...

As for the penalties for points plus pay, wouldn't those be the same as the underlying cash fare. If you're willing to buy the fare with cash, the penalties for cancelling are hardly an argument against using points plus pay.

I would personally never use points plus pay... if the value was better than a classic award then I'd just buy the ticket using money.

Points plus Pay converts the cash fare to points at a rate of about 0.8 cents per point. Occassionally this does mean that it's better value than a classic award if the cash fare is very low (e.g. during a good sale). And once you take into account the points/SC earn, then P+P in this case appears a much better option.

Just keep in mind that if you need to cancel, the penalty is much higher on a points plus pay booking than on a classic award (where the penalty I believe is 5,000 points only).

 

[opusman]

So 78800 points plus $245 for 90 SC, with $800 still in my pocket.

Shhh, that's sounding suspiciously like a shortcut to status

 

[medhead]

Shhh, that's sounding suspiciously like a shortcut to status

ssshh don't tell anyone...

well a slow shortcut to status.

 

[Anna]

I think the negativity towards points + pay comes from some people confusing it with the kind of prices (in points) that usually come up if you click on 'view in points' when making a booking.

Points + pay has its uses, and the OP seems to have found one that suits. I've also made use of points + pay in the past. It's a question of checking out all the available options for what you want to achieve.

 

[katiebell]

I recently looked at flights between CBR & MEL: classic award was much better value than P+P. I always look at both and usually classic awards are better value. But always worth checking as OP shows

 

[burmans]

I recently looked at flights between CBR & MEL: classic award was much better value than P+P. I always look at both and usually classic awards are better value. But always worth checking as OP shows

I think this is just a case of oversimplification. Some people just like things to be black and white, since classic is "usually" better that P+P they take a the view that its not worth looking at P+P.

Hardly the first time people have generalised rules when the reality is a little more nuanced.

 

[Mattg]

To clarify, I would usually just purchase the cash fare instead of using points in this instance as I'm saving my points. If I was "points rich" then that might be a different story.

As for the penalties for points plus pay, wouldn't those be the same as the underlying cash fare. If you're willing to buy the fare with cash, the penalties for cancelling are hardly an argument against using points plus pay.

Yes, the cancellation fees are the same as with a regular cash fare. My point is that when comparing points + pay vs classic awards, classic awards have greater flexibility.

 

[big_RED]

I've never understood how to do the calculation to find what the points are worth when using them.

Eg a fare is $1000. Or 5000 points so that = my points are 0.08. It sounds stupid but all the examples I've ever seen I could never get my calculations to match the result outlined.

Plus what if you have credit cards getting you 2 points per dollar spend. So theoretically using your points gets you higher usage out of them.

Or am I highly confused?!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I've never understood how to do the calculation to find what the points are worth when using them.

Eg a fare is $1000. Or 5000 points so that = my points are 0.08. It sounds stupid but all the examples I've ever seen I could never get my calculations to match the result outlined.

Plus what if you have credit cards getting you 2 points per dollar spend. So theoretically using your points gets you higher usage out of them.

Or am I highly confused?!

What anyone values FF points at is always going to be subjective. By way of explanation:

If you gained a flight for 5000 points (and no fees) that was worth $1000 then that would be a use worth 20cents per point = great use.

When I value what a point is worth I value it at what the flight is worth, minus any taxes paid, verses the cheapest available purchase of that flight, and not recommended retail as you see some posters vlauing it as.

So if fare is normally $2000 but is on sale at times for $1200 I would use the $1200.

If fare is $2000 on say Qantas, but I can get it on another quality airline at say $1400, I value it at $1400 and not $1400.

These days I mainly only redeem for J or F, but even thougha fare may be worth $8000 I do not value it as that as if I actually had to purchase the fare at that price, I would not as I would fly Y or PE and use the extra cash instead. Having said that I will still value it in points more than Y spend.

In assigning a fare value you also need to look at the cost if you could have bought the points via LifeMiles etc. So if you can buy the points for a $7000 flight for $3500 then the flight in "earnt" points should be compared to $3500 and not $7000.

So if I redeem say 180,000 points plus $1000 in fees for flight on SQ worth $7300 then that is notially worth 4cents per point. However one culd buy points at cheaper than $7200 (though migh have to fly in J on a lesser airline like Thai). One could also buy discount J deals on Finnair etc. Or airlines that have poorer J like Sri Lankan one for less. For these reasons I would not value the points as being worth as much as 4 cents.

However to fly to Europe and back in J on a quality airline for $1000 return I am more than happy with. I would certainly be willing to pay more than Y to fly in J, but I would never pay full fare for J.

So the points are probably "worth" about 2 cents each to me (ie Fare = $1000 in fees and $3600 in points), but I get great "emotional" value for that 2 cents per point by spending it on J/F redemptions. If I was more hard-nosed I would say 1 cent per point and certainly when aquiring points if there are surcharges and or annual card fees involved that might cause an aquisition cost of more than 1 cent per point I would not then "buy" those points.