2 x Return Qantas F/F Business to London Return ..... > 2.1M Points ..... can this possibly be right ?

[ben ifin]

Hi all !

OK .. its been a while but can this possibly be right ??

Up to just before Covid we regularly booked MEL - HTHROW Return on Qantas Classic Business F/Flyer Points for 2 x Tickets for 512,000 in total ...ie: 256,000 Qantas Classic Business F/Flyer Points for each of the two of us .. there were several trips over several years always at this number of points.

Just now today - Sept 10, 2024 - I am looking to book for August 2025 ... and there are zero "Classic" flights ... only "Classic Plus" ... and these "Classic Plus" Business Return F/Flyer bookings are wanting just of 2,100,000 [ ie: 2.1 Million !!!!! ] points for 2 x Tickets for what used to be 512,000 for 2 Tickets.

As such, can I please ask / clarify:-

(1) => is the old basic "Classic" Business Option no longer available ?
(2) => is there are reason why "Classic Plus" is now 4 x more points than Classic is / used to be ?
(3) => do normal "Classic" Flights still get released ... but in only very small numbers ?
(4) => if (3) is right, is it still 512,000 for 2 x Business "Classic" F/Fly tickets from Mel - Hthrow ?

I know I've been out of the loop for a while but this just seems "extreme to me in the extreme"

Ben

 

[Mwenenzi]

Welcome to "Classic Plus"
And many people with gazillions of QF points they want to spend (after no travel 2020 2021 like you)
Cash paid ticket to Asia and then QF Classic award may be an option.
Chose some where other than LHR. LGW MAN EDI GLA STN DUB CGD(a train ride from London)

 

[SYD]

Hi all !

OK .. its been a while but can this possibly be right ??

Up to just before Covid we regularly booked MEL - HTHROW Return on Qantas Classic Business F/Flyer Points for 2 x Tickets for 512,000 in total ...ie: 256,000 Qantas Classic Business F/Flyer Points for each of the two of us .. there were several trips over several years always at this number of points.

Just now today - Sept 10, 2024 - I am looking to book for August 2025 ... and there are zero "Classic" flights ... only "Classic Plus" ... and these "Classic Plus" Business Return F/Flyer bookings are wanting just of 2,100,000 [ ie: 2.1 Million !!!!! ] points for 2 x Tickets for what used to be 512,000 for 2 Tickets.

As such, can I please ask / clarify:-

(1) => is the old basic "Classic" Business Option no longer available ?

Technically still exist but rare.

(2) => is there are reason why "Classic Plus" is now 4 x more points than Classic is / used to be ?

Varies based on underlying fare price. During a “Sale”, CR+ will be less points (and have been seen to be less than CR, although I’ve only seen that on flights to/from NZ.

(3) => do normal "Classic" Flights still get released ... but in only very small numbers ?

The regular release X days out has stopped fir many popular routes….

(4) => if (3) is right, is it still 512,000 for 2 x Business "Classic" F/Fly tickets from Mel - Hthrow ?

If you can find them, the CR points will still be the same number of points as before.

I know I've been out of the loop for a while but this just seems "extreme to me in the extreme"

You could try looking for partner CRs (eg CX, MH, BA, AY etc) but theyre also getting hard to find.

 

[henrus]

(1) => is the old basic "Classic" Business Option no longer available ?

Yep it's still an option but clearly the dates you're searching don't have award space. Premium cabin award space however is limited based on a date release, from today to 1 Aug is 325 days (meaning you'd need to be Gold or above to see them).

Gold and above can book from 353 days out, Silver and above from 323 days out and those with no status from 297 days out.

(2) => is there are reason why "Classic Plus" is now 4 x more points than Classic is / used to be ?

Classic plus is linked to a cash fare at 1.5c per point.

(3) => do normal "Classic" Flights still get released ... but in only very small numbers ?

Yep. It's worth noting that on the MEL-LHR route as Qantas no longer fly this with one flight number you've got to find award space in business class on both the flight to PER or SIN and also the onward flight to LHR. As they're highly likely to sell most of the cash seats to London it's also quite common to see very few redemption seats released.

(4) => if (3) is right, is it still 512,000 for 2 x Business "Classic" F/Fly tickets from Mel - Hthrow ?

Yes the award chart remains unchanged for classic rewards:

Classic Flight Reward Tables | Qantas Frequent Flyer

Find out how many Qantas Points you need for Classic Flight Rewards.

www.qantas.com

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

More evidence that Classic Plus is a waste of time.

 

[ben ifin]

This is going to sound like the ultra-first world problem ... pre-covid I would always say to anyone .... only ever use your points for Business Class travel internationally ..... thats where the true value [was] ......never use the rewards shop or domestic Oz travel or even Bus Class Upgrades.

Now .... to me at least ... its looking like the only actually realistic place where they can actually be redeemed ... without having to use 1M <-> 1.2M points for 1 x Bus Class major fare *is* to use them for domestic .... I know the world has changed post-coved but this just reeks of almost making "Classic" rewards un-bookable and/or getting everyone to use 3x 4x times more points compared to pre-covid to effectively "shut down" Classic Rewards points usage redemption ???

Maybe I'm just too negative and too cynical

I *thought* the major QFF Program changes they announced and made 4 - 6 months or more ago was actually going to make my points more valuable and easier to use ?!?!?!?!?

Ben

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I think you are mistaken to think that the days of business class awards for "cheap" on frequent flyer programs like Qantas is over. Nothing can be further from the truth in my experience. However, if you are thinking that finding the availability will be as simple as booking a flight on Expedia or Webjet, you're mistaken. Finding these deals means you need to put the effort in, meaning you need to look for the pockets of availability (and trust me there almost always is pockets of availability).

Here are some strategies I use to fly business with points regularly internationally:

1. Look for alternate airports. So you can't find MEL > LHR. What about Perth to Paris or Perth to Rome? There often is availability there. You'll want to remember the major airports in Europe where you'll likely find availability they are: London (BA, Qantas), Paris (Air France, Qantas), Amsterdam (KLM), Helsinki (FinnAir), Madrid (Iberia), and Zurich (Emirates). Remember, KLM and Air France are both part of the classic awards program which actually opens up a number of doors. For Asia you've got Tokyo (JAL, Qantas), Singapore (BA, Qantas), Hong Kong (Cathay, Qantas), Colombo (Sri Lankan). Indeed tools like Seats.aero will show you on what dates you can actually find business classic award availability to Europe from Australia.
2. Consider alternate routings. Sometimes you cannot make it in one shot. However, there can be scattered availability along the way. For instance, maybe Qantas has classic award availability between Melbourne and Singapore one day, and then a couple of days later partner BA has classic award availability between Singapore and London. Keep in mind that Qantas actually incentivizes passengers to do this through their round the world award ticket program that allows you to book business class around the world for a low number of fixed points (318,000 points for business). This means you can enjoy Europe, Americas and parts in between all in one trip across the many OneWorld airlines from Qantas and BA to American and Cathay!
3. Hold points in multiple programs. As much as I do enjoy collecting and using Qantas Points, I wouldn't get the same travel in as I do if I didn't have points in multiple frequent flyer programs. The fact of the matter is, depending on where and when you are travelling there may be availability in one program (or another). To give you a worked example, back in July my partner and I were flying San Francisco back to Sydney. Originally, we were booked on an economy classic award with Qantas since that was all we could find. Approximately 3 weeks prior to travel I saw that American Airlines opened up business class seats from San Francisco to Sydney (connecting in LA) so called Qantas and switched over to those flights. Then 3 days prior to departure I checked and saw Virgin Australia had 2 seats in business class on United between San Francisco and Sydney. I called back up Qantas to cancel out that booking and rebooked using my Virgin points. Now you're probably thinking why the heck would I cancel out that AA award I had for something else? Well there were a couple of benefits here:
   1. Fewer points were required (95,500 points booking United business with Virgin versus the 108,000 on Qantas with American)
   2. Taxes and fees were considerably less ($100 AUD versus nearly $500 AUD IIRC)
   3. No need to connect in LA which means we could spend more time in SF and not have to worry about a connection blowing out.

As another example, in 2022 and 2023 I travelled to Europe and the Americas using Air Canada Aeroplan points where Qantas did not have the availability I needed. In 2022 it was simply flying from Sydney to Toronto (return). On Aeroplan that was 160,000 miles return in business class. Last year, I needed a round the world award ticket and Aeroplan could do it far less than Qantas. 220,000 points in business class for the following itinerary:

1. Sydney to Zurich (connecting in Melbourne and Abu Dhabi)
2. Zurich to Toronto (connecting in Lisbon)
3. Los Angeles to Seoul
4. Seoul to Sydney.

Technically not entirely a round the world as there was that surface segment between Toronto and LA but I got a hell of a lot of mileage out of that trip visiting several continents.

-RooFlyer88

 

[CaptJCool]

Good points @kangarooflyer88

Hazard a guess that not everyone wants to do the Asian layover (pr multiple layovers) nor the research nor the multiple different programs

However in the lifecycle people’s ability to spend changes. Imagine trying to pay for 5 (family) or find reward seats
Well one can “negatively gear” work related conferences. Professional development
The tax refunds are very handy and the learnings are really of value

Then we hit finishing up work and divorce and so on and viola plenty of spare cash to spend the kids inheritance !

Like where I’m now at

 

[Mh4k]

This is going to sound like the ultra-first world problem ... pre-covid I would always say to anyone .... only ever use your points for Business Class travel internationally ..... thats where the true value [was] ......never use the rewards shop or domestic Oz travel or even Bus Class Upgrades.

Now .... to me at least ... its looking like the only actually realistic place where they can actually be redeemed ... without having to use 1M <-> 1.2M points for 1 x Bus Class major fare *is* to use them for domestic .... I know the world has changed post-coved but this just reeks of almost making "Classic" rewards un-bookable and/or getting everyone to use 3x 4x times more points compared to pre-covid to effectively "shut down" Classic Rewards points usage redemption ???

Maybe I'm just too negative and too cynical

I *thought* the major QFF Program changes they announced and made 4 - 6 months or more ago was actually going to make my points more valuable and easier to use ?!?!?!?!?

Ben

I’ve burned over a million QFF points on business and first class international CRs this year alone. There’s availability there if you can be at least somewhat flexible in routing and to an extent dates.