2019 Federal Election Discussion

[Renato1]

We voted yesterday because we'll be in Bali on the 18th May.

It's darn annoying - I'm going to miss out on the sausages and onions that day.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Hvr]

it's not illegal & anyway fat chance of being sued successfully if company goes belly up, due to unions getting control.

It is illegal.

Trade Union Activity | Australian Human Rights Commission
It can be discrimination when a person does not experience equal opportunity in employment because of his or her activity in a trade union.
This includes being refused a job or dismissed from a job

So many companies go belly up, don't pay their bills or wages and then re-emerge as a new company, i.e. phoenixing. I suggest this happens a lot more often than " a company going belly up, due to unions getting control."

Illegal phoenix activity
Illegal phoenix activity is when a new company is created to continue the business of a company that has been deliberately liquidated to avoid paying its .... employee entitlements.

Before they get proper justice, maybe all the free feeling voters could picket their office and call them scabs, dogs, and throw things at them, just like the good old days.

Those good old days weren't that good and fortunately are nearly over with action taken when it occurs. And yes it is illegal.

Now the worst behaviours seem to come from employers who commit massive wage theft and employee abuse.

And as Sally Mc Manus noted:

“Quite often these workers have stopped work because a worker has been killed on a building site. That union gets fined more than the companies that actually kill workers.”

ACTU boss defends ‘law-breaker’ remarks

Mind you, didn't the ACTU boss go on TV and say .... it's ok to break unjust laws.

She certainly did and was rightly pilloried for those comments.

 

[ozfflyer]

It is illegal.



So many companies go belly up, don't pay their bills or wages and then re-emerge as a new company, i.e. phoenixing. I suggest this happens a lot more often than " a company going belly up, due to unions getting control."





Those good old days weren't that good and fortunately are nearly over with action taken when it occurs. And yes it is illegal.

Now the worst behaviours seem to come from employers who commit massive wage theft and employee abuse.

And as Sally Mc Manus noted:



ACTU boss defends ‘law-breaker’ remarks



She certainly did and was rightly pilloried for those comments.

Sally McManus ? You can get any dodgier than her. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a huge lie.

If someone wants to say you might not have a job after election if unions get in, that's an opinion or it could be fact if they say you won't have a job.

 

[Hvr]

Sally McManus ? You can get any dodgier than her. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a huge lie.

Who knew she was a banking executive?

If someone wants to say you might not have a job after election if unions get in, that's an opinion or it could be fact if they say you won't have a job.

Or in the circumstances noted above it could be construed as a threat.

 

[Hvr]

Not that many companies go belly up and then re emerge like the Phoenix. We just hear about the ones that do. It’s an urban myth.

An urban myth that costs us up to $5.13 billion dollars per year.

Dodgy company 'phoenixing' is costing Australia up to $5 billion a year

The ATO says illegal phoenix activity is prevalent in building and construction, labour hire, payroll services, security services, cleaning, computer consulting, cafés and restaurants, and childcare services.

The ATO says it also sees phoenixing in regional Australia in mining, agriculture, horticulture and transport.

 

[ozfflyer]

Not that many companies go belly up and then re emerge like the Phoenix. We just hear about the ones that do. It’s an urban myth.

lots of building companies do. Lots of companies selling poor quality roof top solar systems do, so they offer 5, 10 whatever years warranty & then they "close down" & restart at almost same time as another company. Some ever use the same TV adverts just with new name. So any warranty is useless. They might as well say lifetime warranty

 

[tgh]

HVR's post highlights the type of stuff that probably influences many simple minds
It says potential, and then proceeds to highlight the portent as fact.

Ozflyer's breatheless support statement that "lots do it" is presented as improving our understanding whereas it's just un substantiated hot air

My mum used to say : Believe none of what you hear (or read) and only half what you see

 

[ozfflyer]

Sally McManus ? You can get any dodgier than her. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a huge lie.

If someone wants to say you might not have a job after election if unions get in, that's an opinion or it could be fact if they say you won't have a job.

so you can say it's illegal, but if unions did get control of lower house(they actually think they have won the election already, but they haven't. They might actually lose the unlooseable election & that only means the lower house. Clive will almost certainly get a few senators & it will be very interesting when whichever party wins lower house has to go grovelling to Clive ...

so if those same workers who were emailed & told that if unions will election, you will lose your job & they do, then that's a fact & you can't sue anyone for stating a fact, besides, if a company closes down, they probably won't have any assets to sue & lawyers aren't interested unless there's a big take for themselves. (you can't get blood from a stone)

 

[amaroo]

<snip>

Now the worst behaviours seem to come from employers who commit massive wage theft and employee abuse.

<snip>

Certainly there are some shocking examples of this - 7/11, hospitality, retail, etc....

It's also certainly true that many arrangements / agreements were pitched and supported by unions that achieved the very same thing - cleaners, health, etc

 

[Pushka]

Wasn’t there someone in politics recently who only paid their au pair around $4 an hour?

 

[ozfflyer]

Certainly there are some shocking examples of this - 7/11, hospitality, retail, etc....

It's also certainly true that many arrangements / agreements were pitched and supported by unions that achieved the very same thing - cleaners, health, etc

wage theft can be looked at in 2 ways. Know a retailer who's business is very seasonal. He employs 20+ staff for 6 months of year & works 7 days & for rest of year, employs 2 staff & only opens 4 1/2 days a week.

Awards simply don't work for this type of seasonal business, so he offers some of his full timers, time off in lieu.

He simply says, you can have as many hours as you want in the 6 months we're busy up to 6 days a week(he finds if anyone works 7 days a week like he does, their productivity drops) & then get time off in lieu, meaning they can have 6 or 7 weeks straight annual leave. He has a deal with some airline & offers them cheap trips overseas, which many take advantage of.

So everyone is happy, except strictly speaking, he's not paying by any award.

He doesn't keep records of hours worked on the premises, so no one can inspect them & he has to pay some of his casual cash, or they simply won't work. He suspects some are on welfare as well.

That's reality.

If it ever went to court re wage theft, his lack of records might save his cough.

Look at recent case of Flight Centre(FC). They were paying a retainer + commission. Anyone who was any good, was happy cos they earned much more than any award + lots of travel benefits. Anyone who was useless wasn't happy & should have been let go. They were the ones who had a go at FC & were small in number. So FC had to restructure they pay deal to satisfy the useless ones, who no longer worked there, no because they were sacked, but because they were useless.

 

[ozfflyer]

Wasn’t there someone in politics recently who only paid their au pair around $4 an hour?

after she got free accommodation in like a granny flat, separate to main house, all meals, a car & petrol for use anytime she wasn't working & only worked minimal hours cos wife only worked part time, about 15 hours a week. Think the story said she worked an average of 20 hours a week & was guaranteed she'd have 2 days a week, when she wasn't looking after kids at all. So she worked on average 4 hours a day, 5 days a week & got all of above in a very nice flat in central Sydney & still got given $160, which wasn't subject to tax. Many people would like that arrangement & do it for nothing. Is that wage theft ? Probably not.

 

[love_the_life]

Just musing. I wonder why we have this thread. Everyone has their own political views and knows who they will vote for. No one is going to change sides so why bother?

 

[ozfflyer]

Just musing. I wonder why we have this thread. Everyone has their own political views and knows who they will vote for. No one is going to change sides so why bother?

there is a small percentage who have no idea who'll they'll vote for. Some will vote informally, some won't vote at all, some will vote twice & the rest will decide who wins the lower house, the unions or LNP, however, the senate is where all the action will happen. Few greens might go & clive might get some senate seats, the BIG question is ...

who will clive take votes off, unions ? One nation ?

The ones who don't vote at all or vote twice can never be caught, unless they admit it.

Imagine if anyone did get a letter from AEC (doubt this every happens) saying you didn't vote. All they'd have to say is they did, end of story.

 

[drron]

In Braddon the UAP has taken a few off ON but a lot of the Independent in the By election.The Greens have taken about 2.5% off the ALP.
The Libs are down 1% on primaries but this time a Nats candidate who has 3.5%.

 

[ozfflyer]

In Braddon the UAP has taken a few off ON but a lot of the Independent in the By election.The Greens have taken about 2.5% off the ALP.
The Libs are down 1% on primaries but this time a Nats candidate who has 3.5%.

think greens might be wiped out this election. Hardly any media coverage & some of their loony ideas. Good to see the back of Hanson Young.

 

[drron]

The Greens are up in Braddon because BS came out in favour of the forest industry when there.The fact that the poll suggested 80% of Braddon electors supported the forest industry would not have been a factor in his decision.

 

[love_the_life]

there is a small percentage who have no idea who'll they'll vote for. Some will vote informally, some won't vote at all, some will vote twice & the rest will decide who wins the lower house, the unions or LNP, however, the senate is where all the action will happen. Few greens might go & clive might get some senate seats, the BIG question is ...

who will clive take votes off, unions ? One nation ?

The ones who don't vote at all or vote twice can never be caught, unless they admit it.

Imagine if anyone did get a letter from AEC (doubt this every happens) saying you didn't vote. All they'd have to say is they did, end of story.

I meant everyone who is posting on this thread knows who'll they will support. The thread is interesting for conjecture but no one is going to change any one else's views I'm sure.

 

[ozfflyer]

I meant everyone who is posting on this thread knows who'll they will support. The thread is interesting for conjecture but no one is going to change any one else's views I'm sure.

there are a lot of people out there, who aren't that bright & are easily swayed

 

[amaroo]

Just think of it as a QF v VA thread....