2019 Federal Election Discussion

[JohnK]

The donkey vote varies btw ~ 2.5 - 3.7% or thereabouts. Fortunately most people take their voting rights seriously and those that don’t are just considered donkeys.

Ah yes. If you vote for someone you're taking your voting rights seriously but if I refuse to vote I'm a donkey and don't take my voting rights seriously.

Really? Politics is a joke. All parties are the same. They don't deserve my vote. I do take my stance very seriously. Wish more thought the same.

 

[tgh]

A lot of people have , and continue, to die for half our democratis rights @JohnK
The least you can do is to appreciate your freedom and participate constructively

 

[dajop]

A lot of people have , and continue, to die for half our democratis rights @JohnK
The least you can do is to appreciate your freedom and participate constructively

It is just as much a democratic right to not vote for anyone as it to vote for someone. JohnK has exercised his right to let others decide the results of the election. Some may see it as a protest because of lack of good candidates, although I see it as a “don’t care who wins” vote.

At least with the compulsory voting system some thought must go into the choice of whether to vote at all, and if so how to vote.

 

[dajop]

Ah yes. If you vote for someone you're taking your voting rights seriously but if I refuse to vote I'm a donkey and don't take my voting rights seriously.

John, I think you’re confusing terms. What you are doing is classified as “informal” voting (blank or incorrectly completed ballot paper). No one is calling you a donkey (in this context anyway ... we’ll leave that to other threads ... haha ....), as a donkey vote is where you would number the candidates in order from top to the bottom of the ballot paper, and is still counted as a valid vote.

 

[moa999]

I think the blank vote has replaced the donkey vote (almost got as many blank votes as votes for One Nation in the NSW election)
Still some advantage. Also apparently reverse donkey is a thing

 

[dajop]

I think the blank vote has replaced the donkey vote

And that is probably a good thing. That people who don't care, don't contribute to the decision (as opposed to donkey vote, which still counts).

 

[Cossie]

Interesting, but slightly off topic, I was talking a lady from the Czech Republic last year about voting, her belief was that compulsory voting was akin to communism and that In a true democracy you should always have the option of not voting....

This was coming from someone that was brought up in a communist state.

 

[dajop]

Interesting, but slightly off topic, I was talking a lady from the Czech Republic last year about voting, her belief was that compulsory voting was akin to communism and that In a true democracy you should always have the option of not voting....

Practically speaking (although not written in laws), we do not really have compulsory voting in Australia, we just have compulsory ballot paper collection. No one is holding a gun to you head to vote, there is an option of not voting, or even drawing genitals or pictures on your ballot paper, and people do (as evidenced by JohnK's comments above) exercise their right not to vote.

And even with the laws, you can pay a modest fee ($20), and exercise your right to not even turn up and collect a ballot paper.

 

[OATEK]

We certainly do have an unusual voting system - how many other leading democracies have compulsory attendance at a polling place. In the UK this last week we have had local government elections with a turnout of around 30%. In their Brexit Poll Referendum they achieved 72% turn out. And they have first past the post, so you can be elected with a majority in a local government election with a fraction of voter support (eg if 4 standing you may only need 26% of 30% who voted, or 7-8% of the electors).

 

[VPS]

Practically speaking (although not written in laws), we do not really have compulsory voting in Australia, we just have compulsory ballot paper collection. No one is holding a gun to you head to vote, there is an option of not voting, or even drawing genitals or pictures on your ballot paper, and people do (as evidenced by JohnK's comments above) exercise their right not to vote.

And even with the laws, you can pay a modest fee ($20), and exercise your right to not even turn up and collect a ballot paper.

I think the modest fee has changed. A friend of mine never voted and the last time he got a letter saying if you don't vote this time may go to gaol.

 

[Isochronous]

I remain concerned that the younger high achievers in Australia will leave for a better tax jurisdiction. The Labor tax plan does not work well for these folks and they are the ones who can fire up the economy when it is needed. Moving their tax rates towards half is just plain crazy.

It is already happening. Anyone with a modicum of transferrable skills or business that I know is looking at restructuring and relocating to minimise exposure to Australia.

It is just as much a democratic right to not vote for anyone as it to vote for someone. JohnK has exercised his right to let others decide the results of the election. Some may see it as a protest because of lack of good candidates, although I see it as a “don’t care who wins” vote.

At least with the compulsory voting system some thought must go into the choice of whether to vote at all, and if so how to vote.

It is also a democratic right, as you say, not only to refrain from voting but critically, to also refrain from giving a major party the $2.40 that comes with giving them your primary vote.

 

[ozfflyer]

saw one poll today that has Lnp & unions down to a 1% differential. It looks like unions are going to loser this one & Clive will be kingmaker in the senate.

Also bet the informal vote will be much higher this election due to changes in senate voting.

 

[dajop]

saw one poll today that has Lnp & unions down to a 1% differential. It looks like unions are going to loser this one & Clive will be kingmaker in the senate.

Of course, depends on entirely where that 1% differential is.

My only wish for this election, whoever of the two coalitions win, is that Zali beats Tony. If LNP win, I don't think it is healthy for any PM to have former PM in his parliamentary team. CEO's don't generally hang around in private companies once they are booted out. If Labor wins, I don't think it's going to be productive for the country to have an attack dog in charge of the opposition (assuming Morrison is replaced as LP leader by Abbott).

 

[ozfflyer]

Of course, depends on entirely where that 1% differential is.

My only wish for this election, whoever of the two coalitions win, is that Zali beats Tony. If LNP win, I don't think it is healthy for any PM to have former PM in his parliamentary team. CEO's don't generally hang around in private companies once they are booted out. If Labor wins, I don't think it's going to be productive for the country to have an attack dog in charge of the opposition (assuming Morrison is replaced as LP leader by Abbott).

can't see Tony losing to another lawyer. Most people hate lawyers until they need one.

 

[moa999]

Also bet the informal vote will be much higher this election due to changes in senate voting.

Why?
It changed in 2016.

And while the rules say 1-6 above, or 1-12 below,
Savings provisions mean a 1 above will still count, it just won't flow anywhere if the candidate is excluded

 

[I love to travel]

With 12 days to go it is seeming like Labor will get over the line - just.. Newspoll are generally on the money.

 

[ozfflyer]

With 12 days to go it is seeming like Labor will get over the line - just.. Newspoll are generally on the money.

hardly. Unions are doing everything they can to lose the election. When polls down to 1% differential it's anyones to win(the lower house), but who will run the show in the senate ? Probably Clive.

 

[moa999]

can't see Tony losing to another lawyer. Most people hate lawyers until they need one.

Sportsbet has Tony as a very slight favourite at present.

I agree Zali isn't quite the right independent candidate. While she's obviously got something of a profile, suspect she lost a few voters when admitting she'd never voted Liberal in her life. While she might win this time can't see her holding the seat next election (same as Kerryn Phelps in Wentworth this time)

That said I suspect a few small 'l' liberals may vote for anyone but Tony just to send a message to the right, if the overall result still looks like being one sided.

Dutton remains well behind on the bookies odds up in Queensland.

 

[ozfflyer]

anyway, doesn't matter who wins house of reps. It's all about the senate. Think Greens will be wiped out this time.

 

[drron]

I think on this occasion the national opinion poll could turn out to be quite inaccurate.
It really depends on the seat.Even in little Tasmania there are going to be different swings in the 5 seats.In the North Bass and Braddon could well go to the libs but down south the greens and ALP will do a lot better.
In the larger states libs will do better in outer urban areas than the inner city seats.

I saw some saying the Nats are in danger of losing their NSW rural seats seeing how poorly they did in the State Election.However they lost those seats to the Shooters and Fishers party whose policy on Climate Change was-we don't believe it and want a new coal power station built.I can't see the ALP or Greens appealing to those voters.

It would be good to watch Antony Green on election night.