24 August 2011 - any predictions?

[ajw373]

I think you'll find people want something that isn't a race to the bottom while being constantly told it is the world's leading premium airline.

They are getting what they pay for....

 

[liparj]

Hope this hasn't been posted before and is OK to put on here....

Qantas to cut international flights - The West Australian

 

[medhead]

They are getting what they pay for....

They are getting something that is rapidly changing for the worse in a general sense.

In a specific example, how do you know what you're paying for? Same route, same O fare, can cost me $119 to $209. On the $209 fare I get a packet of beetroot chips literally thrown at me and have to pay for a beer. The $119 includes a meal, such as it is, full drink service and polite crew.

 

[Vinny]

They are getting what they pay for....

TT customers along with customers of all airlines pay for a seat, hopefully comfortable, on a safe plane with an experienced and able crew This is minimum. Arrival of luggage on the same flight works too.

If TT was unable or unwilling to be able to the expectations of those who travel it's not the fault of the pax. However the airline has questions to answer and if they intend continuing business in this country, a number of improvements need to be made.

As for getting what they pay for, clearly many pax were getting what they paid for while a large number were not. I'm sure their intention was not to pay a reduced fare on offer in order to be treated poorly.

The fact remains the fares were paid in good faith and a paying pax should not be shrugged off with an excuse like they paid for a low class seat so 'stuff ya.'

I'm sure there are many posters here who have had flights delayed, cancelled, useless customer service on a large number of airlines, including self proclaimed premium airlines

If TT can get over its woes with an increase in fleet numbers to allow for delayed flights, pilots who follow regulations, servicing aircraft properly along with a better attitude to customers the aviation industry here would be enhanced by competition. SQ who owns a portion of TT will be wanting drastic reforms in their investment.

TT has never had the monopoly in this country or any other country on cough service, cough FAs, cough aircraft, delays and so on. Just look at the competition here.

I never flew TT but have experienced the 'getting what I paid for' on premium airlines with an equally inadequate service how some airlines can call themselves premium, charge accordingly and get away with it.

As for QF prediction on August 24, expect more Jet* flights on a large number of routes with resulting levels of service and comfort. Then you will be getting what you pay for. Or maybe not.

 

[ajw373]

TT customers along with customers of all airlines pay for a seat, hopefully comfortable, on a safe plane with an experienced and able crew This is minimum. Arrival of luggage on the same flight works too.

If TT was unable or unwilling to be able to the expectations of those who travel it's not the fault of the pax. However the airline has questions to answer and if they intend continuing business in this country, a number of improvements need to be made.

As for getting what they pay for, clearly many pax were getting what they paid for while a large number were not. I'm sure their intention was not to pay a reduced fare on offer in order to be treated poorly.

The fact remains the fares were paid in good faith and a paying pax should not be shrugged off with an excuse like they paid for a low class seat so 'stuff ya.'

I'm sure there are many posters here who have had flights delayed, cancelled, useless customer service on a large number of airlines, including self proclaimed premium airlines

If TT can get over its woes with an increase in fleet numbers to allow for delayed flights, pilots who follow regulations, servicing aircraft properly along with a better attitude to customers the aviation industry here would be enhanced by competition. SQ who owns a portion of TT will be wanting drastic reforms in their investment.

TT has never had the monopoly in this country or any other country on cough service, cough FAs, cough aircraft, delays and so on. Just look at the competition here.

I never flew TT but have experienced the 'getting what I paid for' on premium airlines with an equally inadequate service how some airlines can call themselves premium, charge accordingly and get away with it.

As for QF prediction on August 24, expect more Jet* flights on a large number of routes with resulting levels of service and comfort. Then you will be getting what you pay for. Or maybe not.

Not sure what the TT bit is about, but your last para is exactly what I am getting at. People these days EXPECT the fares on airlines like Qantas to be low, but also still expect the service, especially on-board to be high. So what does Qantas have to do to reduce costs to the consumer, yes they reduce the service and they turn routes that make a loss over to the Jetstars of this world. Hence my point you get what you pay for. Ie if we the passenger demand lower prices we are going to get less of a service and yes we are going to get more jetstar routes. My prediction for Jetstar has is the same as the day it was made, which is it will slowly move more up market, maybe not to the extent that Virgin Blue has gone with their transformation into Virgin Aus, but certainly higher than they are now, thus bluring the picture more and putting even more pressure on Qantas.

 

[medhead]

Not sure what the TT bit is about, but your last para is exactly what I am getting at. People these days EXPECT the fares on airlines like Qantas to be low, but also still expect the service, especially on-board to be high. So what does Qantas have to do to reduce costs to the consumer, yes they reduce the service and they turn routes that make a loss over to the Jetstars of this world. Hence my point you get what you pay for. Ie if we the passenger demand lower prices we are going to get less of a service and yes we are going to get more jetstar routes. My prediction for Jetstar has is the same as the day it was made, which is it will slowly move more up market, maybe not to the extent that Virgin Blue has gone with their transformation into Virgin Aus, but certainly higher than they are now, thus bluring the picture more and putting even more pressure on Qantas.

I think you have this backwards. Qantas constantly tell us they are a premium airline, the worlds leading premium airline. When I pay the fare that qantas offers I expect to get that premium service of the worlds leading premium airline. Knowing that I'm booking with a premium airline I do not expect the fare to be low. Simply put people are paying for the worlds leading premium airline and they are not getting that, well not in my experience anyway.

In any case, the fares on qantas are not low, despite what people may expect.

 

[ajw373]

I think you have this backwards. Qantas constantly tell us they are a premium airline, the worlds leading premium airline. When I pay the fare that qantas offers I expect to get that premium service of the worlds leading premium airline. Knowing that I'm booking with a premium airline I do not expect the fare to be low. Simply put people are paying for the worlds leading premium airline and they are not getting that, well not in my experience anyway.

In any case, the fares on qantas are not low, despite what people may expect.

Nope, I have it the right way around. You seem to be making the assumption that Qantas is giving passengers what Qantas wants, when the reality is the passenger these days expects to pay less, so Qantas has adjusted the product, especially at the back of the bus to reflect the service level the customer has paid for. As for Qantas's fares they are as good as any other carrier on any given day, this is also what the consumer expects and demands. As for what you expect for your money, yet again your post highlights the issue that Qantas has. You expect the fares to be low(ish) and the service to be high(ish), this however is not achievable at Qantas's cost levels, especially at the international level.

So yes your are right that the service offering at Qantas has dropped over the years as a cost cutting measure, however if they didn't and charged the correct fare they would have priced themselves out of business, and by offering the same service at a lower fare they would have full buses but still run at a loss. So hence we get what you seem to consider to be "sub standard" service, which BTW on a global scale is still bloody good, IMO #1 for a domestic airline and top 15 for an international carrier, so you are indeed getting exactly what your paying for. Now if you AND every other passenger were prepared to pay more then you have the right to expect the service of old, but considering most are not prepared to pay extra we get what we get which as I said is still a very good product and good value for money.

 

[medhead]

You have it around the wrong way because the price is not based on what the customer expects to pay. The price is set by qantas and it is higher than the competition. On routes that don't pay the qantas price jetstar moves in and qantas moves out.

Further qantas market themselves as the worlds leading premium airline. When I buy a ticket I pay to get what they offer, the worlds leading premium airline. They set the price and I pay it. What the market expects to pay is not relevant to setting service levels when the prices have not been lowered and you still claim to be the worlds leading premium airline.

Throwing a packet of chips at me while saying "here you go mate" is not premium. Ignoring a customer waving an empty glass as you walk past is not premium, every other passenger asleep. Being in the top 15 is not leading.

Edit: I just read you value for money comment. You should try getting a domestic qantas flight after about 7:30pm. Then tell me about value for money. We have a muffin or "cookies". Really? Any particular favours involved? In fact my Qantas flight on Sunday was "we have sweet or savory". Worlds leading premium airline!

 

[harvyk]

Nope, I have it the right way around. You seem to be making the assumption that Qantas is giving passengers what Qantas wants, when the reality is the passenger these days expects to pay less, so Qantas has adjusted the product, especially at the back of the bus to reflect the service level the customer has paid for. As for Qantas's fares they are as good as any other carrier on any given day, this is also what the consumer expects and demands. As for what you expect for your money, yet again your post highlights the issue that Qantas has. You expect the fares to be low(ish) and the service to be high(ish), this however is not achievable at Qantas's cost levels, especially at the international level.

So yes your are right that the service offering at Qantas has dropped over the years as a cost cutting measure, however if they didn't and charged the correct fare they would have priced themselves out of business, and by offering the same service at a lower fare they would have full buses but still run at a loss. So hence we get what you seem to consider to be "sub standard" service, which BTW on a global scale is still bloody good, IMO #1 for a domestic airline and top 15 for an international carrier, so you are indeed getting exactly what your paying for. Now if you AND every other passenger were prepared to pay more then you have the right to expect the service of old, but considering most are not prepared to pay extra we get what we get which as I said is still a very good product and good value for money.

QF are not the cheapest by a long shot, but price for the airfare is not the only consideration, if it was then QF would be flying empty planes as everyone would have gone to JQ \ TT \ DJ (although DJ are moving up market)... People don't want more for nothing, people want to feel that the premium they are paying to be on a QF service is justified. Paying 30% extra for a picture of a kangaroo on the tail doesn't cut it.

 

[markis10]

Nope, I have it the right way around. You seem to be making the assumption that Qantas is giving passengers what Qantas wants, when the reality is the passenger these days expects to pay less, so Qantas has adjusted the product, especially at the back of the bus to reflect the service level the customer has paid for.

How has QF adjusted the product, if your argument was to hold water then explain why domestically have we seen the introduction of free citiflyer booze, newspapers etc, AVOD, while in international we have seen the introduction of PE, new interiors, AVOD as well. If they are trying to bring the cost down to meet passengers expectation then its an odd way of doing it.

 

[drron]

Medhead unfortunately you and I are dinosaurs.Me an old one and you(to me anyway) a younger one.I get what you are saying but the great masses have different ideas.
Also ADL must be different.When I fly back from DPO it is usually cheaper to catch the ~ 1930 QF flight to BNE and pay for the bus to home than take the JQ afternoon flight to MCY-and a no brainer due to miles earning which enables me to put up with anything-though I have yet to have the beetroot chips!

 

[medhead]

Medhead unfortunately you and I are dinosaurs.Me an old one and you(to me anyway) a younger one.I get what you are saying but the great masses have different ideas.
Also ADL must be different.When I fly back from DPO it is usually cheaper to catch the ~ 1930 QF flight to BNE and pay for the bus to home than take the JQ afternoon flight to MCY-and a no brainer due to miles earning which enables me to put up with anything-though I have yet to have the beetroot chips!

Well the masses certainly have different ideas. (I'll skip a semi political tirade about giving aspirations) But that's why we have jetstar and tiger.

ADL, maybe ADL-SYD, is different mainly because I have a choice of 2 flights in each direction. 6am Monday morning QF is mostly $209 or $169 looking well in advance, $119 on sale. DJ is normally $114 and I can often get for $99 on sale. This is when booking well in advance, 2 to 3 months lead time. Sure if booking closer to the flying date the price situation does change. My most expensive flight was $319 on DJ, when they rescued me from qantas and the ash cloud, booked 2 days beforehand.

Overall, I've averaged $127 on QF and $113 on DJ. The only difference is the food that qantas includes. I don't eat on my 6am flights, breakfast in the lounge. So on average I would be paying an extra $28 a week, return trip, for a "snack" and a beer if I only flew QF. But then the average would go up considerably as a number of my DJ flights were up against $209 from QF.

I haven't seen the beetroot chips of a long time. You might have dodged a bullet.

 

[ajw373]

How has QF adjusted the product, if your argument was to hold water then explain why domestically have we seen the introduction of free citiflyer booze, newspapers etc, AVOD, while in international we have seen the introduction of PE, new interiors, AVOD as well. If they are trying to bring the cost down to meet passengers expectation then its an odd way of doing it.

Actually I agree everything you mention are indeed enhancements and yes they too do cost. However the product as a whole from check-in to arrival has with out doubt been degraded over the years as a direct result of cost cutting. My views on this are it is a sign of the times and adjusting to match the market so I don't have an issue with it per se. These pages are full of such examples, just read Meadhead's comments about Beetroot chips, or think back to the meal in a box that was introduced about 10 years ago and subsequently cut in 2004.

As I have said I think on the world stage Qantas still offers one of the best domestic products in the world and is still up there internationally too and we Australians are spoilt domestically in particular.

 

[medhead]

Well when you put it that way maybe I need to explain. Beetroot chips sound like a good idea, new agey, healthy that kind of thing. I got sucked in. But then you eat them and they are awful. So good idea, premium, celebrity chef idea and probably low cost. But clearly no one tried the food.

I'm not sure what I think about all this, sure cut costs I don't have a problem with that of course. Occasionally when I get a meal it isn't much to write home about, but the difference between a snack and a meal is stark. Maybe I just think that there is a market by providing better service to justify a price premium. Currently, I'm looking at a difference of $14, I can get a steak and beer at a pub for that much. I'd happily pay a $30+ difference per flight for the same (or equivalent). Or even look at DJ, good roast beef sandwich for $10, I can get one of those on every flight and still save $4 over qantas. Basically they've cut so much that providing a meal is meaningless.

 

[plain_traveller]

Edit: I just read you value for money comment. You should try getting a domestic qantas flight after about 7:30pm. Then tell me about value for money. We have a muffin or "cookies". Really? Any particular favours involved? In fact my Qantas flight on Sunday was "we have sweet or savory". Worlds leading premium airline!

Fair point. The "food" is cough.

For your irregular traveller, who travels with luggage, QANTAS is still often much better value than JQ or DJ flights. For example, I'd rather pay $109 with QF to go Adelaide to Melbourne, than $88 with Virgin plus $12 luggage, plus food & drink.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Fair point. The "food" is cough.

For your irregular traveller, who travels with luggage, QANTAS is still often much better value than JQ or DJ flights. For example, I'd rather pay $109 with QF to go Adelaide to Melbourne, than $88 with Virgin plus $12 luggage, plus food & drink.

Assuming I'm not a QPPS, I would rather go with DJ for $88 + $12 = $100, and use the $9 for better food on land. ADL-MEL is a short trip after all.

 

[medhead]

Fair point. The "food" is cough.For your irregular traveller, who travels with luggage, QANTAS is still often much better value than JQ or DJ flights. For example, I'd rather pay $109 with QF to go Adelaide to Melbourne, than $88 with Virgin plus $12 luggage, plus food & drink.

I get what you're saying, but I can't see the difference. For $9 you can purchase just as good if not better than what qantas offers. (personally, I wouldn't eat at all ADL-MEL but that is irrelevant)

 

[nlagalle]

Well when you put it that way maybe I need to explain. Beetroot chips sound like a good idea, new agey, healthy that kind of thing. I got sucked in. But then you eat them and they are awful. So good idea, premium, celebrity chef idea and probably low cost. But clearly no one tried the food.

I'm not sure what I think about all this, sure cut costs I don't have a problem with that of course. Occasionally when I get a meal it isn't much to write home about, but the difference between a snack and a meal is stark. Maybe I just think that there is a market by providing better service to justify a price premium. Currently, I'm looking at a difference of $14, I can get a steak and beer at a pub for that much. I'd happily pay a $30+ difference per flight for the same (or equivalent). Or even look at DJ, good roast beef sandwich for $10, I can get one of those on every flight and still save $4 over qantas. Basically they've cut so much that providing a meal is meaningless.

well i know you've banged on about those chips - and i've only ever had them once, and I didn't mind them. I caught a flight home outside the "meal times" 6-8am 12-2pm and 6-8pm and we got a snack box, which was biscuits and cheese, shortbread biscuits (from Byron Bay bakery) and the trail mix. filled the gap til I got home for dinner

I don't exepct a meal at anytime of the day - and the meals I've had of late mainly MEL-SYD haven't been too bad. In fact the Bircher Museli was rather good the other week, and the Red curry the other month was rather good too.

 

[medhead]

well i know you've banged on about those chips - and i've only ever had them once, and I didn't mind them. I caught a flight home outside the "meal times" 6-8am 12-2pm and 6-8pm and we got a snack box, which was biscuits and cheese, shortbread biscuits (from Byron Bay bakery) and the trail mix. filled the gap til I got home for dinnerI don't exepct a meal at anytime of the day - and the meals I've had of late mainly MEL-SYD haven't been too bad. In fact the Bircher Museli was rather good the other week, and the Red curry the other month was rather good too.

ADL gets ripped off! Bircher museli!? Red curry? Snack box? If only. Outside meals times we get a muffin (sweet or savory), Byron bay cookies or those disgusting dip things.

 

[ReLoad]

Excuse me chaps, I think you will find the Neil Perry inspired Beetroot chips have been enhanced.

I heard a rumour*, and it is only a rumour that the enhancement is new Neil Perry inspired Flaming Beef Jerky. or F'N Jerk as it is referred to in the hospitality industry.

Anyway I look forward to the Flounging on Saturday, should be a treat.

ReLoad

*rumour was actually overheard at QF HQ in coward street Mascot where I overheard two very high powered execs in the lift talking about how the guy that comes up with the food on board is a F'N Jerk, so i asumed they were talking about this new amazing menu change.