28° Mastercard Cash Advances while overseas [No more free cash advances from 1/1/14]

[DeKa]

Shops in the Netherlands don't accept international cards, unless it's a tourist area, and that's still no guarantee.

Interesting. MasterCard merchant agreement says they must honour all cards.

5.8.1 Honor all cards on page 5-14 applies to a credit card. The modifications on page 12-31 only apply to debit mastercards.

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf

You should challenge these Dutch merchants. If you report them they may lose the ability to accept any MasterCard.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

my parents used wizard all over holland recently, although not to buy tickets... was accepted in small town restaurants etc.

 

[Danger]

I had no trouble using the card in Amsterdam.

 

[brucebrad]

Does anyone know how the 'order of payment' works with these cards? The policy document doesn't say how it works for items that have not yet appeared on a statement.

For example, I have the following transactions (not included on any statement yet)
- Start with nil balance, then
- Cash withdrawal of $500
- Purchase of item at $500
I then make a $500 transfer into the account. Will it be applied to the cash withdrawal or to the purchase? If the latter, it means I will continue to pay interest on the withdrawal until I pay off the next statement.

 

[rweir]

suspect that actual problem was that a lot of places in the Netherlands just don't take Mastercard at all, but do take Cirrus and Maestro. whether it is enforced by the cashier or the terminal I do not know.

 

[get me outta here]

I suspect that it will go to the charges not the cash.

I put on enough $$ to cover charges AND cash if going o/s. Or, stop charging then pay on due date and then load on the cash for use.

 

[moa999]

Thought there was something in the PDS that it would go to cash first in those circumstances (although probably goes to any outstanding balance beyond due date first)

 

[get me outta here]

Ok, 'someone' (OP?) needs to phone and ask and let us know please.

 

[Cynicor]

Highest interest charges first, as long as they have posted already.

In the 28 degrees case, this is the cash advance that is paid first. I have proof from my last statement.

 

[serfty]

Does anyone know how the 'order of payment' works with these cards? The policy document doesn't say how it works for items that have not yet appeared on a statement.

For example, I have the following transactions (not included on any statement yet)
- Start with nil balance, then
- Cash withdrawal of $500
- Purchase of item at $500
I then make a $500 transfer into the account. Will it be applied to the cash withdrawal or to the purchase? If the latter, it means I will continue to pay interest on the withdrawal until I pay off the next statement.

See the links to "user guides" in post one of this thread for more for answers to your question.

 

[zzyss]

Does anyone know how the 'order of payment' works with these cards? The policy document doesn't say how it works for items that have not yet appeared on a statement.

For example, I have the following transactions (not included on any statement yet)
- Start with nil balance, then
- Cash withdrawal of $500
- Purchase of item at $500
I then make a $500 transfer into the account. Will it be applied to the cash withdrawal or to the purchase? If the latter, it means I will continue to pay interest on the withdrawal until I pay off the next statement.

If I'm not mistaken, it became a legal requirement a few years ago that any payments will be put towards the highest interest amounts first, so in this case the cash withdrawal because this is essentially treated as a cash advance which would normally be accruing interest immediately and has a higher rate.

FRB: Credit Card Rules (WYNTK)

• Payments directed to highest interest balances first. If you make more than the minimum payment on your credit card bill, your credit card company must apply the excess amount to the balance with the highest interest rate. There is an exception:
  • If you made a purchase under a deferred interest plan (for example, "no interest if paid in full by March 2012"), the credit card company may let you choose to apply extra amounts to the deferred interest balance before other balances. Otherwise, for two billing cycles prior to the end of the deferred interest period, the credit card company must apply your entire payment to the deferred interest-rate balance first.

 

[brucebrad]

Searching, I see that a similar law has been introduced in Australia. I think it only applies to cards issues after mid 2012 (though providers might apply it more generally). From the Explanatory memorandum for the National Consumer Credit Protection Amendment (Home Loans and Credit Cards) Bill 2011,

3.60This Division regulates the order in which the credit provider must attribute payments as follows:

•in accordance with an agreement between the consumer and the licensee to apply certain payments made under the credit card contract against a particular amount;
•against the amount owed contained in the most recent closing balance provided in a statement provided to the consumer before they made the relevant payment;
•against the part of the balance that has the highest annual percentage rate (the rate specified as such in the credit contract), then the part of the balance that has the next highest annual percentage rate, and so on; and
•remaining payments in accordance with the terms of the credit card contract.

3.61For the avoidance of doubt, it is specifically provided that the requirement does not apply to a payment to a credit card account which is made by the licensee as a result of a reversal of a previous transaction or a refund made in respect of such a transaction.

 

[Flashback]

Website appears to be down (again). Their site goes down more than Monica Lewinsky!

 

[JohnK]

I should have swallowed my pride and accept the $3,500 last year!

I only received $5,500 limit when I first applied a few years ago. I may have asked for $10,000 credit limit at the time and was surprised that it was not approved.

About 6 months later I was offered a credit limit of $8,000 and I refused. This credit limit increase is still available on my account but I am happy with the $5,500 for now.

 

[DeKa]

I started at $2000 but now have a limit closer to $10000.

I had a period of time where an additional cardholder was putting up to $10k per month through it (with a BPay payment every week or so due to the then small limit) buying goods overseas. Every 6 months I'd get an offer to increase the limit.

This comes back to the point I keep making about this card - use it as designed, as a credit card, and they will look after you.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If I'm not mistaken, it became a legal requirement a few years ago that any payments will be put towards the highest interest amounts first, so in this case the cash withdrawal because this is essentially treated as a cash advance which would normally be accruing interest immediately and has a higher rate.

FRB: Credit Card Rules (WYNTK)

Searching, I see that a similar law has been introduced in Australia. I think it only applies to cards issues after mid 2012 (though providers might apply it more generally). From the Explanatory memorandum for the National Consumer Credit Protection Amendment (Home Loans and Credit Cards) Bill 2011,

It used to be the method in Australia (pay towards the highest interest rate first), but then some credit card providers wised up and started applying payments towards the lowest interest rate first. The new laws now require payment towards the highest rate first, regardless of when your card was issued (ie, it now applies to everyone). I think this came into effect late last year?

FWIW, 28 degrees never deviated from the 'highest first' - so paying off a cash advance the next day has always been cost effective (well done 28 degrees!)

 

[mr mink]

Re: 28 Degrees Mastercard - Japan and Mastercard EMV chip cards issues?

In Japan right now and one of the 7Bank ATM's I use said that as of today (19/04) they will no longer accept Mastercard for withdrawals. I've not noticed the message on any other 7Bank ATm's though, I'll give it a try later today or tomorrow if I have time. If this is true for all 7Bank ATM's then there's an even smaller amount you can get cash from here.

I am also acutely aware of this flying into NRT in a couple of days for 2 weeks in Japan, then to Korea for 2 weeks. I know from 5 weeks in S Korea last year that generally no problems at all with cards (NAB Amex and M'card) or 28 Degrees there. But well aware that in Japan Cash is King. In my last 2 visits they have only been 1 or 2 night sleepovers in Tokyo so simply swapped some Euros etc at NRT for simple small cash. 2 weeks is another thing altogether as not all cheaper hotels take cards.

Having sweated a few Net pages on this it seems that, as to 7Bank ATMs in particular that the situation is not as disastrous as at first appears. Although the restrictions seemed to apply from 19 April 2013, and apply only to EMV (assume 'chipped' cards - must be a techno upgrade issue, and this also occurred 2-3 years ago?).

The Mastercard Japan sub-page says this (undated unfortunately):

<<< Re: Temporary Suspension of Maestro ATM Acceptance in Japan
Thank you very much for patronage with MasterCard. All Maestro-branded EMV cards issued outside of the Asia/Pacific region are temporarily unable to withdraw currency at domestic ATMs, while the regional ATM network is upgraded.
However, Maestro-branded EMV cards issued in the following countries are able to withdraw currency at domestic ATMs.
Netherlands Germany Canada
Maestro-branded EMV cards issued within the Asia/Pacific Region (my underline), Maestro-branded cards without EMV chip, MasterCard-branded cards, and Cirrus-branded cards are not affected by this temporary suspension of service. Cardholders can continue to be able to use these other MasterCard products at ATMs and merchants across Japan.
MasterCard is working with these customer financial institutions to enable full acceptance of all cards as soon as possible.>>>

so an Australian issued (hopefully we are considered Asia/Pacific despite Paul Keating etc) Mastercard with a chip should be OK - as well the 28 Degrees card has no Maestro logo on it anyway (my NAB Qantas gold Mastercard actually has Cirrus on the back). So on Thursday morning 23rd I will find out off the QF by checking out both the Citibank machine and the 7Bank on the Basement rail level of Terminal 2. I was considering buying some Yen here before to be safe or even considering taking some AUD to change at Narita (at least one airport fortunately a Travelex free zone!). However the rates quoted for AUD on the Narita airport site and the spread is shocking! - buy AUD at 90Y, sell at 110Y - Aussie banks here seem relatively philanthropic at a sell rate of about 95Y. So I will take my chances and hope that 7Bank and the Jap Post Office can look after me. Citibank as distant second - in Seoul they were the only bank that charged me on 28Degrees withdrawal at a huge station where there were 4 or 5 ATMs all Citibank flavour and no other choice for cash.

Having posted this alarum I had better post a hopefully positive result later!

 

[mr mink]

Re: 28 Degrees Mastercard - Japan and Mastercard EMV chip cards issues? Update

I am also acutely aware of this flying into NRT in a couple of days for 2 weeks in Japan, then to Korea for 2 weeks. I know from 5 weeks in S Korea last year that generally no problems at all with cards (NAB Amex and M'card) or 28 Degrees there. But well aware that in Japan Cash is King. In my last 2 visits they have only been 1 or 2 night sleepovers in Tokyo so simply swapped some Euros etc at NRT for simple small cash. 2 weeks is another thing altogether as not all cheaper hotels take cards.

Having sweated a few Net pages on this it seems that, as to 7Bank ATMs in particular that the situation is not as disastrous as at first appears. Although the restrictions seemed to apply from 19 April 2013, and apply only to EMV (assume 'chipped' cards - must be a techno upgrade issue, and this also occurred 2-3 years ago?).

The Mastercard Japan sub-page says this (undated unfortunately):

<<< Re: Temporary Suspension of Maestro ATM Acceptance in Japan
Thank you very much for patronage with MasterCard. All Maestro-branded EMV cards issued outside of the Asia/Pacific region are temporarily unable to withdraw currency at domestic ATMs, while the regional ATM network is upgraded.
However, Maestro-branded EMV cards issued in the following countries are able to withdraw currency at domestic ATMs.
Netherlands Germany Canada
Maestro-branded EMV cards issued within the Asia/Pacific Region (my underline), Maestro-branded cards without EMV chip, MasterCard-branded cards, and Cirrus-branded cards are not affected by this temporary suspension of service. Cardholders can continue to be able to use these other MasterCard products at ATMs and merchants across Japan.
MasterCard is working with these customer financial institutions to enable full acceptance of all cards as soon as possible.>>>

so an Australian issued (hopefully we are considered Asia/Pacific despite Paul Keating etc) Mastercard with a chip should be OK

Tokyo and Narita update - no, 7Bank appears a complete non-starter with 28 Degrees Mastercard, regardless of Asia/Pacific etc - certainly at NRT, have not tried anywhere else as assume the same "issue". (It would have given me cash advance on NAB Qantas Amex, but we do not want to go down that road do we?). Found the Citibank machine (it has its own little booth on back wall of L.1 of arrivals - other ATMs tend to be behind the escalators on levels 1 and 3 out of sight if you have not used them before/cannot find them) - although 28 Degrees did not seem to work first time, it did second time for 75,000Y. However this was after I had tried my CBA transaction card just for the hell of it - which is branded with Cirrus and Maestro - and 25,000Y came out OK (which cost me $12 in fees - about 5%!). On second time (maybe I made a mistake the first time) with 28 Degrees it gave me the 75,000Y and no mention of any fees (we will see about that).

However a day or so later happened to be near Japan Post Office in Shinjuku (this was 10pm but ATMs open almost 24/7 it seems) and successfully got out 15,000Y as a trial. So maybe the JP Bank is unaffected by all this Mastercard stuff and only 7Bank. So I might be banking on (excuse the pun) the JP Bank ATMs from now on.

 

[Deleted member]

We loaded ours up before heading to UK. After two success with cash advances. We were unable at any place to do it again in uk.
Moreover it was $19 a transaction so will re think that one

 

[Cynicor]

GPH- do you mean you are doing multiple cash advances here in the UK? Or that it worked somewhere else? Mine worked fine yesterday but I have not done multiple advances. I get all my cash in 1 go normally.