42 737s Cabin Refresh from 2027

[MelbFlyer]

That QF will have only 7 A321s by June next year suggests there's very little to look forward to, all while the LCC subsidiary flies around 21 brand new airframes of the type. It's almost deranged.

Absolutely.

Why Jetstar has newer A321neo planes flying domestically, whilst Qantas are stuck with decade+ old 737s is the $64,000 question.

 

[justinbrett]

Absolutely.

Why Jetstar has newer A321neo planes flying domestically, whilst Qantas are stuck with decade+ old 737s is the $64,000 question.

It's the only way the JQ model works.

Not a new thing for LCCs to have the newest aircraft. It's pretty much a requirement.

 

[elanshin]

Can you even buy 319s now? Worst dutch roll I’ve ever experienced….

I believe it is still on Airbus' slides and the A319NEO is still a plane available. That said, I believe Airbus is pushing for the A220 instead. There's something like 57 total orders with 22 deliveries as of Nov last year so it is definitely not a popular plane.

I’d have hoped they’d standardise on 321 NEOs and XLRs, but remember that a major part of any purchase plan will be continued divide and conquer amongst the various staff groups. They’re great believers in the Chinese famine theory.

I wonder if you were given the ability to shape QF's future fleet, would you mix the MAX and the NEOs (safety records and Boeing situation aside - assumption is that it get's fixed but who knows these days). Given the timelines and delays everywhere, would the strategy work out if it's to get MAX's as well now and just say screw it, we're going to have 2 families anyways.

Probably topic drift, but will the current love of tariffs being expressed by some, not have the effect of reducing the potential sales of any 797 dramatically. Who’d buy it if they’re being impacted, when there’s a European alternative, and perhaps even a Chinese one. Beyond that, Boeing haven’t shown any ability to complete any projects in reasonable time frames in quite some time.

I dont think we'll see a 797 launched until 2030 until new engine breakthrough and Boeing fixes themselves. Airlines probably don't even entertain the idea until there is even remotely possibilities. We'll probably see more things in Airbus' camp hit the market first than Boeing. They might just make a new plane rather than continue the 320 family.

Absolutely.

Why Jetstar has newer A321neo planes flying domestically, whilst Qantas are stuck with decade+ old 737s is the $64,000 question.

It's a simple equation really. JQ margins are thinner and their customers are more price sensitive - new planes are much more fuel efficient. QF has higher margin and their loyal customers are going to fly them anyways, so there's no need to rush.

 

[RooFlyer]

Probably topic drift, but will the current love of tariffs being expressed by some, not have the effect of reducing the potential sales of any 797 dramatically. Who’d buy it if they’re being impacted, when there’s a European alternative, and perhaps even a Chinese one.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but Trump's tariffs won't affect other countries buying US aircraft. Trump has said he loves Australia buying their aircraft (it largely contributes to their trade surplus with us).

 

[markis10]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but Trump's tariffs won't affect other countries buying US aircraft. Trump has said he loves Australia buying their aircraft (it largely contributes to their trade surplus with us).

It’s not a big contributor at all at 2%, half that cars contribute

 

[justinbrett]

It’s not a big contributor at all at 2%, half that cars contribute

That doesn’t include aviation parts (another two percent), and those numbers would fluctuate depending on orders.

In 2016-2018, it was around 3 billion a year (10%)

https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australias-imports-of-aircraft-and-parts-update-for-2018.pdf

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but Trump's tariffs won't affect other countries buying US aircraft. Trump has said he loves Australia buying their aircraft (it largely contributes to their trade surplus with us).

The EU would jump at the chance to put on reciprocal tariffs.

Won’t effect us but would reduce Boeings customer base.

 

[elanshin]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but Trump's tariffs won't affect other countries buying US aircraft. Trump has said he loves Australia buying their aircraft (it largely contributes to their trade surplus with us).

Problem is it might affect cost price of the planes in the medium term if a EU tariff is across the board. Airbus has a lot of components being manufactured in the US. Although Airbus has indicated also that if serious tariffs were imposed, they may delay deliveries to US customers as a result.

 

[markis10]

2018 same same, seasonal variation based on orders and delays no doubt muddy the waters, defence was a significant buyer with the wedgetails and p8s this century

 

[jb747]

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but Trump's tariffs won't affect other countries buying US aircraft. Trump has said he loves Australia buying their aircraft (it largely contributes to their trade surplus with us).

If he's placing tariffs on AB, then I'd expect the EU to do the same to Boeing. Why would you deal with the USA if they're hitting you with tariffs on anything your produce, when you have an alternative.

 

[RooFlyer]

It’s not a big contributor at all at 2%, half that cars contribute

Fair enough, but us buying gold from the US is 5% of total US exports to Australia ($1.6billion), and is the single biggest item that is broken out???? How does that work? Gold in electronics wouldn't come close to a shadow of that, even if it was not included in electronics value %

Overall, the US and EU applying mutual tariffs which will increase the price of Boeing and Airbus because of cross-imported components I still don't think will materially affect Australian airlines' decision on buying the 797. Airbus alternative? Also gone up. Chinese - I don't think so.

 

[p--and--t]

Seeing this thread is already way off topic. Why would any airline centre new fleets around a plane design 70yo. Sure the 737 has been a reliable workhorse of the past but how many times can you apply lipstick to the pig and pretend its a modern aircraft design.

 

[elanshin]

Fair enough, but us buying gold from the US is 5% of total US exports to Australia ($1.6billion), and is the single biggest item that is broken out???? How does that work? Gold in electronics wouldn't come close to a shadow of that, even if it was not included in electronics value %

Overall, the US and EU applying mutual tariffs which will increase the price of Boeing and Airbus because of cross-imported components I still don't think will materially affect Australian airlines' decision on buying the 797. Airbus alternative? Also gone up. Chinese - I don't think so.

I don't think it'll eventuate. I strongly suspect the US airlines are having very strong words behind closed doors to the Trump administration now. Airbus has already hinted from their CEO if they get slapped with tariffs, US airline delivery slots might slip down the line.

 

[pauly7]

The A220 seats are the Recaro R2 model which are used on the 737 by a few airlines. Southwest just switched to the Recaro R2 seats for their new builds and Alaska are retrofitting their 737-800 aircraft with R2 seats.

That’s good news / interesting, the new A220 seats are good. Personally would like to see them in the 737s too.

 

[RooFlyer]

Airbus has already hinted from their CEO if they get slapped with tariffs, US airline delivery slots might slip down the line.

Yes, but that’s one of the main reasons for applying tariffs. Trump says “don’t buy Airbus, because I’ve just made it too expensive, buy American made Boeing.

Of course that doesn’t go to the availability of Boeing aircraft, but I don’t think that enters the peanut’s head.

 

[RooFlyer]

Seeing this thread is already way off topic. Why would any airline centre new fleets around a plane design 70yo. Sure the 737 has been a reliable workhorse of the past but how many times can you apply lipstick to the pig and pretend its a modern aircraft design.

As long as the lemmings keep making a beeline to the Qantas check-in counter, Qantas will feel it’s okay to dish up be-lippied pigs.

 

[justinbrett]

2018 same same, seasonal variation based on orders and delays no doubt muddy the waters, defence was a significant buyer with the wedgetails and p8s this century

View attachment 433456

Your source contradicts official government figures so I’m not sure I trust it.

 

[p--and--t]

As long as the lemmings keep making a beeline to the Qantas check-in counter, Qantas will feel it’s okay to dish up be-lippied pigs.

Except, QF is not centering its NEW fleet around MAX etc. Quite the contrary.

 

[PERLHR]

Are we sure as yet that they won't just add an extra row in Y? It is after all what "we all want" isn't it....I'm sure they will tell us that sometimes. Still.mystified that they think on 24 year old aircraft in some cases it's worth all this refurb. It's certainly not for pax comfort.

 

[elanshin]

Are we sure as yet that they won't just add an extra row in Y? It is after all what "we all want" isn't it....I'm sure they will tell us that sometimes. Still.mystified that they think on 24 year old aircraft in some cases it's worth all this refurb. It's certainly not for pax comfort.

Well if they don't refit now, what are they going to do in 2033 flying 2016 seat designs. I don't think they have a choice to get new aircrafts, the backlog queue at Airbus and Boring isn't going to let them speed it up any faster.

Also i think you underestimate how much PAX comforts can improve with an actual fresh coat of paint, seats and service. Now I'm not saying QF will nail it, but take Delta for example. They have a 35yo 757 configured in VIP mode for NBA.