789/388 Broken Business Suites Rife - PAX Involuntary moved

[DAC1]

Oh… that’s good news in general. Do you have an example of the new downgrade compensation? It used to be that a business class downgrade to economy LAX-SYD would return very little to the customer, around $600.

On a SYD-LAX last May I was offered USD$600 cash or a USD $850 voucher for a J to PE downgrade. I didn’t take either option as I ended up pushing for an alternative and was booked on DL in J.

No idea why it was quoted in USD but it was definitely USD as I was handed a printed email which set it out.

 

[TheInsider]

On a SYD-LAX last May I was offered USD$600 cash or a USD $850 voucher for a J to PE downgrade. I didn’t take either option as I ended up pushing for an alternative and was booked on DL in J.

No idea why it was quoted in USD but it was definitely USD as I was handed a printed email which set it out.

Those amounts have now changed - it's all now a set refund amount + voucher.

 

[Matt_01]

Has also happened to me as WP, on revenue flights in J. At least once I saw my seat with a then prominent sport administrator's backside in it, so I'm guessing the moves often occur due to a WP1 who couldn't be bothered getting a seat assignment beforehand, knowing Qantas will tip out someone for his choice on check-in.

Well at least I know that was not me, I am not a sports administrator or to that matter sports orientated As for you P1 comments see below.

Gawd if a Blogger is a CL then we're all doomed!!

I just want to say, as a P1, I've never seen any evidence or heard of any other P1 who has been shifted - or requested to unseat someone else to suit their wishes. Now I'm sure there some douche DYKWIA types who would insist on this kind of thing and some might get away with it (probably more CL tbh. Most P1's are less ego and more seasoned warrior, but I digress).

Having said that we've read any number of anecdotes of seemingly "helpful" agents shifting people to suit others (eg: moving solo pax so couples can sit together).

I just weary a bit of the suggestion that most of the high status types truly are the "W" in WP1 because that's not my experience as being one (well others may disagree on that point, but I mean in terms of flight behaviour ) and others I know/have met.

I have been moved on one flight in F MEL-LAX due to inop seat (and it definitely was) but generally otherwise I've always kept the seat I've allocated but yes, having held P1 for eight years I suppose that is to be expected.

In my time as a P1 I have been called to the service desk more times to be asked if I am willing to be moved to accommodate seat moves what I assume was last minute upgrades to let people sit together. I would suggest that 99% of the time I have just agreed and it was not like that the lounge agent was asking me to shift from 1C to 3F it was more like 1C or D to 1 A or F. Similar in Y usually ask would I switch from the C side to D side in R4. Internationally I have been asked would I trade seats and again often the answer was yes. There has been times when I had a shadow that disappeared but when boarding there was no one next to me and the other side was full, I didn't ask for this to happen and can only assume the bot or manual intervention made this happen.

@RooFlyer I think QF may have made some enhancements to the bookings system as when booking and I forget or 'couldn't be bothered' to select a seat my seating it is automatically allocated. In the spirit of DYKWIA I may have to write to QF and ask them to re-factor their code so that the seating algorithms will pre allocate my preferred seating to 1/4C rather than 1/4D and when on international the A side rather than the K side

 

[Daver6]

Sacrè bleu

They were also prone to failure especially the droopy S-B II

Coming back from DFW to SYD last week, I was booted from 3K to 2A. I asked the QF rep in the AA lounge and he said the seat was broken. Not really a big deal.

Speaking of droop though, I did notice in my 2A seat the last bit of the seat that rises up to meet the fixed part where your foot go, didn't quite make it to full horizontal. So the SB II droop issue might be an issue for the new seats too. It does make it a little uncomfortable laying on my back as without your calves taking weight it forces your knees to hyper-extend. Good thing I'm happy to sleep on my side or stomach and managed a good 9.5 hour nap

 

[DAC1]

Those amounts have now changed - it's all now a set refund amount + voucher.

In rough terms, how does the value of the set refund + voucher compare to what it used to be?

 

[MrJetset]

There are many business seats in the 787 fleet where the seats are currently broken and have been broken for months.
The passengers you may see in these seats are either staff passengers or passengers who have accepted downgrade compensation.
Some cabin crew may assist in manually reclining the seat, but this is usually only done once, actually very rare now for them to actually do it.

Exactly this.

When my seats have broken in F (happened on several flights), I was moved and the staff member in another F seat was forced to take my broken seat.

It also happened on QF23 when my partner and I were separated. I asked at check in and they said the seat was broken. Boarded to find a staff member in the seat but I was in 1A and my partner in the next middle seat and it turned out to be better than the two middle seats, anyway!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Those amounts have now changed - it's all now a set refund amount + voucher.

The refund *should* be at minimum: fare paid, less the lowest fare offered in the downgraded cabin on the day you purchased your ticket.

So if you paid $8000 return SYD-LAX, and you are downgraded to economy on the return, that would be $4000 less $1000 (lowest fare on day you booked, in economy) = $3000. That should be in cash, not ‘in kind’.

The EU formula of a 75% refund would probably be similar in outcome.

 

[jase05]

The refund *should* be at minimum: fare paid, less the lowest fare offered in the downgraded cabin on the day you purchased your ticket.

So if you paid $8000 return SYD-LAX, and you are downgraded to economy on the return, that would be $4000 less $1000 (lowest fare on day you booked, in economy) = $3000. That should be in cash, not ‘in kind’.

The EU formula of a 75% refund would probably be similar in outcome.

I don’t agree.
I believe you should get the whole fee reimbursed for that leg. In your example it should be $4k

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don’t agree.
I believe you should get the whole fee reimbursed for that leg. In your example it should be $4k

They are still giving you transportation which has a value. The EU scheme is probably the toughest out there and that only gives 75%.

 

[Lynda2475]

Does this abundance of broken seats explain why the mini cabin is blocked for seat selection on A380 flights atm? I was surprised I could get a seat there, but the rest of J was wide open.

 

[kpro]

The mini cabin was wide open for me as a WP for a flight in Jan. On board, every seat was taken and seemingly working.

 

[jase05]

They are still giving you transportation which has a value. The EU scheme is probably the toughest out there and that only gives 75%.

I still don’t think EU goes far enough. Should be 100% compensation and still provide transportation. Airlines need to get their act together

 

[renatts]

Wife and I had INOP seats MEL - DRW - LHR on a rewards flight. We had been given these converted revenue fares after our original routing was lost due to Qantas' famous ticketing incompetence.

We were moved out of our original seats just before boarding in MEL for a Platinum and their partner. We were told in the lounge, and the lady who told us joked 'at least I didn't downgrade you to economy' like that was actually a reasonable option on a 17 hour flight. Not a great joke.

The original seat occupants overheard me complaining in the lounge at Darwin and said they were told at check in that they were being moved due to the seats being broken, but weren't told someone else was being moved for them. The husband briefly mentioned swapping back but they were far older than us and probably needed the recline more than us. They were very nice people, and definitely didn't request the move.

The gate staff at Darwin checked for no-shows, even if we weren't going to be seated together, but it was a full flight. He mentioned '6 points upgrades, that's unusual, you should have been put in those seats instead of upgrades.' Didn't really help at this point. A friend used to be a check-in manager for Qantas and said that Rewards sit at the bottom, so they would literally upgrade someone at check in and then downgrade the rewards pax if the situation suited, i.e. last minute broken seats.

The cabin crew were lovely on both sectors, but none of them had much of an idea of how to manually operate the seats. I watched them move my wife's seat into bed mode, then watched them move mine into half recline. Took about 20 minutes all up. Decided I didn't want to bother them constantly throughout the flight (we were told they would move it as much as we wanted them to given the flight time) so I just figured out how to move it myself. It's actually very easy. Foot pedal to slide forward, then a couple of levers to move the back and foot rest. Took me about 20 seconds every time I had to change it.
Cabin crew that hadn't done it before asked me to show them how to do it because they 'could see this becoming more common with the state of things.' and the instructions on the iPad were garbage.

That was almost a year ago.

 

[TheInsider]

In rough terms, how does the value of the set refund + voucher compare to what it used to be?

I should've said set refund % value of the fare. Where as previously is could just be $600USD and fare difference.

 

[Quickstatus]

a reasonable option on a 17 hour flight

Not for you but from the airline's point of view such a downgrade is reasonable.

'at least I didn't downgrade you to economy'

I would view that comment as an actual veiled threat - that she had the power to do so and didn't but hey one complaint and it's down the back you go, and quite unprofessional. Something like that would immediately cause me to record names and make a formal complaint - not that you were downgraded but that she made a comment that can be construed as a veiled threat.

If I did that at my workplace , I would expect to be hauled up before the executive if there was a similar complaint.

 

[Quickstatus]

'at least I didn't downgrade you to economy'

But surely this is standard IFR operations?

 

[renatts]

Not for you but from the airline's point of view such a downgrade is reasonable.



I would view that comment as an actual veiled threat - that she had the power to do so and didn't but hey one complaint and it's down the back you go, and quite unprofessional. Something like that would immediately cause me to record names and make a formal complaint - not that you were downgraded but that she made a comment that can be construed as a veiled threat.

If I did that at my workplace , I would expect to be hauled up before the executive if there was a similar complaint.

I didn't view it as a reasonable option mainly due to the circumstances that landed us on QF9 in the first place. We went from one stopover journey to Helsinki to a three stopover journey due to Qantas not reissuing a ticket in time after a 10 minute schedule change. It added 12 hours to our trip. Although I don't think it's ever reasonable to downgrade anyone, there's a reason they booked the cabin. Reroute or later flight should always be the first option, other carrier in the same class should be the second.

It wasn't really a threat in the context of the conversation. I was clearly very unimpressed and she was trying to lighten things up and say 'look at the positives.' It didn't lighten us up.

I tend not to report front line staff as a general rule. I find the executives that implement disgraceful policies or are clearly out of touch with the reality of frontline operations to be far more worthy of highlighting.

 

[RooFlyer]

Wife and I had INOP seats MEL - DRW - LHR on a rewards flight. We had been given these converted revenue fares after our original routing was lost due to Qantas' famous ticketing incompetence.

We were moved out of our original seats just before boarding in MEL for a Platinum and their partner. We were told in the lounge, and the lady who told us joked 'at least I didn't downgrade you to economy' like that was actually a reasonable option on a 17 hour flight. Not a great joke.

The original seat occupants overheard me complaining in the lounge at Darwin and said they were told at check in that they were being moved due to the seats being broken, but weren't told someone else was being moved for them. The husband briefly mentioned swapping back but they were far older than us and probably needed the recline more than us. They were very nice people, and definitely didn't request the move.

The gate staff at Darwin checked for no-shows, even if we weren't going to be seated together, but it was a full flight. He mentioned '6 points upgrades, that's unusual, you should have been put in those seats instead of upgrades.' Didn't really help at this point. A friend used to be a check-in manager for Qantas and said that Rewards sit at the bottom, so they would literally upgrade someone at check in and then downgrade the rewards pax if the situation suited, i.e. last minute broken seats.

The cabin crew were lovely on both sectors, but none of them had much of an idea of how to manually operate the seats. I watched them move my wife's seat into bed mode, then watched them move mine into half recline. Took about 20 minutes all up. Decided I didn't want to bother them constantly throughout the flight (we were told they would move it as much as we wanted them to given the flight time) so I just figured out how to move it myself. It's actually very easy. Foot pedal to slide forward, then a couple of levers to move the back and foot rest. Took me about 20 seconds every time I had to change it.
Cabin crew that hadn't done it before asked me to show them how to do it because they 'could see this becoming more common with the state of things.' and the instructions on the iPad were garbage.

That was almost a year ago.

Can I clarify, pls?

* There were 2 faulty seats in the J cabin.
* The 2 pax assigned to those seats were pro-actively moved into yours and you were moved into theirs.
* Possibly because you were points users and they (may have been) cash paid and Platinum

At this stage, you were probably lucky that you didn't get booted to down the back or off entirely and simply told 'faulty seats' (albeit not yours )

* Upgraders were assigned operable seats, while you were stuck with the inops.

That some of the cabin crew apparently didn't know how to operate the seat (or maybe only sketchily) is a bit of a surprise. In the event of a phone jamming a seat, maybe with the smell of burning or the beginnings of a fire, I would think that releasing it would be a matter of urgency for whichever crew got to the seat first?

 

[Quickstatus]

Although I don't think it's ever reasonable to downgrade anyone

Agree, however the airline think otherwise and have downgraded people before and IMO found it reasonable to do so. Further I suspect that the other carrier option comes a distant last behind the downgrade from the airline's POV

 

[renatts]

Can I clarify, pls?

* There were 2 faulty seats in the J cabin.
* The 2 pax assigned to those seats were pro-actively moved into yours and you were moved into theirs.
* Possibly because you were points users and they (may have been) cash paid and Platinum

At this stage, you were probably lucky that you didn't get booted to down the back or off entirely and simply told 'faulty seats' (albeit not yours )

* Upgraders were assigned operable seats, while you were stuck with the inops.

That some of the cabin crew apparently didn't know how to operate the seat (or maybe only sketchily) is a bit of a surprise. In the event of a phone jamming a seat, maybe with the smell of burning or the beginnings of a fire, I would think that releasing it would be a matter of urgency for whichever crew got to the seat first?

- 2 Faulty seats, 4E and 4F. They had no power at all to the motors, controls with INOP sticker over them.
- 2 Pax assigned to those seats originally were pro-actively moved by Melbourne check in staff to 12E and 12F, our original seats. We checked in earlier in Brisbane so this happened about 4hrs after we checked in. I still had my original 12E boarding pass until I cleaned out my travel wallet for the next trip.
- One of the passengers that were moved said 'probably because we're platinum' when the other theorised as to why the check in staff would do it.
- 6 upgrades were assigned working seats, one of them was a passenger we were telling about our issue. She overhead us talking with the CSM MEL - DRW and asked in the lounge. She said she was surprised she got an upgrade if there's broken seats. Gate staff confirmed there were 6 upgrades when trying to find us another option.

- None of the cabin crew could remember how to do it. They had an iPad with a guide / demo pictures. They kept struggling to find the levers ect. Don't blame them, they were trying to be gentle, quiet, and professional as to not cause a scene for other passengers. It obviously isn't a good look for Qantas if half the cabin watch.