A VIRGIN Australia pilot is suing the budget airline...

[medhead]

The fellow lives on the Sunshine coast so it is running in the Courier Mail.Probably explains your particular audience.

It's also on the telegraph and advertiser websites.


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[Mal]

It's also on the telegraph and advertiser websites.

Syndication and sensationalism. Explains it all doesn't it?

 

[anat0l]

Funny how the opening paragraph still calls Virgin Australia a 'budget airline'.

Of course, they couldn't find a better photo that shows all the old livery too, couldn't they? Not that there isn't any stock photo of new livery aircraft isn't there?


Back to the point, as alluded to above it will come down to who actually let down their side of obligations or intent under OHS etc., especially as people have said that storing them on an "iPad" at the time would not have been possible. Of course, the lawyers could argue that Virgin should've stored them on a laptop instead - something which would weigh in at 30-40% of the weight of paper documentation.

I wonder if some of the stalwarts here would've actually lamented an electronic version of the documentation and advocated that the old paper types be kept. As might be the case here.

At 18 kg, I'd be wary about my health if I had to carry that day in and day out, especially if bending down regularly to get it. It'd almost be one for the trolley bag for me.


I know that there's an intricate process in trying to prove who failed in whose obligations, but right now I'm not throwing my weight on the pilot's side (no pun intended).

 

[midcoast1]

What would he have done if charts and manuals were on an ipad and the ipad crashed . Sorry , poor choice of word . He would be left with no charts or manuals . And i do have a bad back that plays up at times . 2 bad disks so i have sympathy for people with back problems . I'm sure Virgin would have work place safety in place.

 

[markis10]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall charts being available on iPads in 2009! Actually the iPad wasn't released until April 2010!! So i don't know what the pilot expected Virgin to do!

EFBs (Electronic Flight Bags) however have been around since the turn of the Century, I suspect that its more about being provided a EFB which the paper has decided is an iPAD for the common masses.

 

[samh004]

Surely the carrying of the charts is noted in his job description/the contract he signed. If he’d wanted an EFB he should have negotiated better… is the union standing behind him on this matter?

 

[The Rok]

Well, I have slipped a disc in my back, twice, and it's not nice. I have basically been crippled a couple of times a year since I was 16 (now 31) and I know what this guy feels.

However, I am well able to lift 20kg's, so long as I do it correctly.

I would imagine that the iPad thing is a ruse, something the media have jumped on. More likely the brief will allege that Virgin recognise the dangers of carrying so much weight that they have now adopted alternative means. Question is, how long they knew of the dangers. It probably alleges that Virgin were negligent all along because they knew of the weight issue and never provided an alternative or offered sufficient training on how to lift.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

1) Hurt back playing golf
2) Realise you're at the end of your career with no money to play golf
3) Blame it on 'heavy lifting' at work
4) ..
5) Profit?!

 

[straitman]

Including maps DAP's AIP's ERSA etc, I'm wondering how close it is to 18kg. Although only VFR my flight bag was never more than 10kg. I also carried extras that they wouldn't either. They would also carry what I wouldn't too. And how many pilots have you seen walk through the terminal with the square briefcase? I'm betting that is not 18kgs.

I have just weighed my IFR flight bag and it is a little under 10kg. Depending upon individual preferences and charts carried it could be a little heavier but I cannot see it reaching 18kg.

I'm sure there is a lot more to this story than we are seeing.

 

[medhead]

Lifting weight is not the only way to damage a back. I've seen a case where someone turned and stepped down onto uneven ground resulting in a ruptured disc, change of job and a lifetime of agony.


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[The Rok]

Lifting weight is not the only way to damage a back. I've seen a case where someone turned and stepped down onto uneven ground resulting in a ruptured disc, change of job and a lifetime of agony.


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Agreed. Weight only accounts for about 25% of the risk of damaging your back. Method, such as where the weight is actually carried (upper back, lower back, legs) and the twisting motion applied make up the primary risk. You could slip a disk lifting 5kg if you lifted it incorrectly (as in my case) .

Like I said above, I suspect this has more to do with the lack of lifting guidance and training than the actual weight of what the pilot carried.

 

[drron]

However baggage handlers are able to lift 23kg and not fall foul of OH&S standards.

 

[anat0l]

However baggage handlers are able to lift 23kg and not fall foul of OH&S standards.

Yeah but I'd like to see what proportion of them have a decent back or good musculoskeletal health, too. Hopefully they are following the correct procedures with respect to lifting items and, more importantly, heavy items.

 

[medhead]

Agreed. Weight only accounts for about 25% of the risk of damaging your back. Method, such as where the weight is actually carried (upper back, lower back, legs) and the twisting motion applied make up the primary risk. You could slip a disk lifting 5kg if you lifted it incorrectly (as in my case) .

The case I was thinking about involved no weight at all when the disc went. The person did have to lift weight but had all the training required.

Like I said above, I suspect this has more to do with the lack of lifting guidance and training than the actual weight of what the pilot carried.

Highly possible and it is then a company problem.

However baggage handlers are able to lift 23kg and not fall foul of OH&S standards.

OHS covers both weight limits and also training requirements. Anyone lifting stuff must be trained how to lift and I'm sure baggage handlers would be trained. Basically all ways to reduce the risk must be considered and/or used.


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[munitalP]

I'm wondering if the reaction in this thread would have been different if the headline read "A Qantas Pilot is suing the airline..."

I find it amazing how it's a "go for the jugular" reaction by some as soon as there's negative press about VA

 

[oz_mark]

So, is there some reason a pilot has to lug the charts and manuals around, rather than them being on the aircraft?

 

[Mal]

Depending upon individual preferences and charts carried it could be a little heavier but I cannot see it reaching 18kg.

I'm sure there is a lot more to this story than we are seeing.

Of course! It probably also contained a few changes of clothes for the long trips away, some light reading material for the poolside, and assorted other guff. Easy to see how a bag could get up to 18kg.

 

[straitman]

So, is there some reason a pilot has to lug the charts and manuals around, rather than them being on the aircraft?

Not sure about DJ but in most situations pilots are responsible for their own maps and charts.

 

[anat0l]

Not sure about DJ but in most situations pilots are responsible for their own maps and charts.

If a pilot is responsible for their own maps and charts, that must mean they are accessible from some standard source. If they are only accessible via a standard source, wouldn't the standard be responsible for having them in "appropriate" use formats? If not, then how is the grievance of a pilot then with the airline, unless it is the airline who supplies the maps or it is the airline which enforces or mandates a particular source for maps, which may not be in a form which is beneficial to the pilot and his/her health?

 

[oz_mark]

If a pilot is responsible for their own maps and charts, that must mean they are accessible from some standard source. If they are only accessible via a standard source, wouldn't the standard be responsible for having them in "appropriate" use formats? If not, then how is the grievance of a pilot then with the airline, unless it is the airline who supplies the maps or it is the airline which enforces or mandates a particular source for maps, which may not be in a form which is beneficial to the pilot and his/her health?

I would think that the maps etc would have to be in an approved format. If that is a CASA approved format, I am not sure what the status of electronic storage would have been back then (although I can't imagine an iPad was approved, given it hadn't been released.

I suspect it will all come down to whether the pilot was properly trained in lifting items....