ABC 4 Corners on Qantas - Monday 5 September

[Spacetravel]

I do not accept that the airline "never ever" compromises on safety. All indications are that the airline is stressed at many levels. That is a threat to safety. Regardless of where the truth is vis a vis management vs workers, the relationship between management and the workers is broken. That cannot be good for safety.

Have you seen air crash investigations? I'm sure at least one, if not several episodes mention pilots vs airline issues causing distracted pilots as contributing factors to a crash.

 

[Melburnian1]

Once I'm on board I am happy to be in care of very good crews.

The vast majority of commercial airlines are 'safe', so why is QF different to most others? It's had its near misses over the years.

What you ought be concerned about is, as Quickstatus put it, the arrogance of extremely highly paid QF management, and the possibility that it's living on past glories re safety, which when allied with a huge loss of experienced staff can eventually (who knows when) prove troubling.

 

[Quickstatus]

Once I'm on board I am happy to be in care of very good crews.

Unfortunately, complex systems like airlines require much more than just competent inflight crews to mitigate against failure. There are may interdependent sections each depending on the other to all work as one functional unit. It is impossible to stress one component/part/section in isolation without consequences for others.

The CEO grounded to airline over 10 years ago He didn't even allow flights to takeoff and return to Australia even for the last sector in case the pilots were distracted. But now he is willing to push the airline to its limits?

 

[TheRealTMA]

Gees, I just read that article. Lucky there wasn’t a Hemsworth or two onboard, let alone an American tour group.

They don’t fly commercial do they? (Hs)

 

[SYD]

They don’t fly commercial do they? (Hs)

Correct, not with their entourage!

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, of course I understand the above points... and the inflight crew are relying on the LAMEs and other ground handlers doing their job properly, and obviously their ability to do this has been affected by management decisions.

So I guess I should have rephrased slightly. I was trying to pump up the wheels of the front line folks and tech crews who are not responsible for all of this other rubbish they have no control of.

 

[jb747]

"The Captain today is David Evans, one of the TEAM that saved QF32." (his emphasis on the word). David was a senior check captain on that flight, route checking pilot-in-charge Richard de Crespigny and training another check captain, one of five pilots on the flight deck that day.

Sorry if I drifted off-topic

David is a class act. A first rate Captain. If I get to rank the five, he is at the top of the list.

 

[Catweazle]

Just finished watching the rest of it, because I missed this when it first aired. As someone who studied cinematography, I think this has to be my favourite shot:



But this montage at about 41:00 beautifully illustrates the voiceover in the moment, and made me smirk (haha):

 

[RooFlyer]

Just finished watching the rest of it, because I missed this when it first aired. As someone who studied cinematography, I think this has to be my favourite shot:

Not from a cinematography point of view - I loath shots like that. It what 4 Corners does all the time. The 'good guys' are filmed in convivial settings, having a friendly chat which the program 'listens in' to. The 'bad guys' are filmed in stark settings, often in defensive postures and sometimes with sinister-type music in the back-ground. The program is trying to make a point, not present the issue.

 

[Dr4manyspecies]

Here is the response from Qantas:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-on-claims-in-four-corners-story/

Well, they offered an apology to their customers... that makes it all good, right?

 

[Dr4manyspecies]

Here is the thing, people on this forum know not to do that, but Joe or Jill public is not so savvy because they don't have an obsession with airline travel and the pitfalls as anyone who signs up to a frequent flyer forum would have.

When it comes to checked luggage, in 40 years of flying I have only ever had one bag go missing (QF Adelaide of all places) and is was returned to me within 2 days, so historically it has been very good but now obviously it's become hopeless. Lets hope it returns to very good very soon.

BAM1748, surely you must be the exception to the rule (or maybe I am) because I have had COUNTLESS luggage items go missing (including a vintage guitar that took over a week to 'find' and have returned) from any variety of carriers.
I've only joined this forum recently, so would be a 'Jill public' but having moved internationally more than once via multiple large 'bags' over several flights, sometimes ya gotta put valuable items in your bags and just hope for the best.

 

[Dr4manyspecies]

Watched the piece by Four Corners on Qantas yesterday, and generally agree with the comments others have posted: not much of an eye-opener if you've been on this forum or have been at an Australian port within the last 6 months (irrespective of airline).


I'm a firm believer that all Australians should be given travel training before being given their passport. Basic stuff like how to board a plane efficiently or not putting anything you cannot afford losing in a checked bag. From my experience, the only way you can be sure your checked baggage isn't lost is if you pack a fire arm in the bag (i.e. starter pistol). Generally speaking baggage handlers and airlines hate having to file all that paperwork when they lose a bag that contains a firearm.


Indeed. A lot of folks have been calling for Uncle Alan's ouster for many years. If they didn't get rid of AJ when he used heavy handed tactics like shutting down the airline when pilots went on strike, why on earth would anyone think that he would be held accountable for delayed flights? What's clear is Australia needs to have more consumer rights when it comes to delays and cancellations. For instance, I reckon if Qantas had to fork out $600 in cash compensation for arriving at your destination 4 hours late, Qantas will be more punctual. And the best part about these consumer rights is it doesn't cost the airline a penny. Don't believe me? Look at EasyJet and RyanAir which operate in the context of EU 261 and yet provide dirt cheap fares across the continent. What consumer rights does is it forces airlines to be punctual and to run a good operation. And we know running a good operation will reduce costs on the airlines (i.e. less crew being paid overtime sitting on planes that don't work).


In the context of COVID we know that cleaning surfaces is a joke. It's an airborne virus: only the HEPA filters on board and the mask you must wear can solve this issue!


Like anything travel related the Bob Barker rules applies: most people will fly with any airline if The Price is Right. Checking the QF site today I see they are selling SYD > PER for $175 one-way, particularly given the points upgrades can provide decent value, particularly on the A330 service. I reckon many folks will leap at that offer, particularly if they are holding one of Uncle Alan's handkerchiefs (i.e. $50 voucher).


You hit the nail on the head. Frankly Australians don't care about how QF employees are treated. If they did there would have been an uproar when Uncle Alan illegally fired ground staff or suspended service to force unionized employees back to work. The question now is if the gestures provided by Uncle Alan are enough in terms of status extensions, the aforementioned handkerchief ($50 voucher), extra award availability and bonus points for super-elites. I reckon the answer will be a resounding yes.

-RooFlyer88

The frustrating thing, RooFlyer88, is the disparity with the 'hanky'... my recent return from the US entailed 8 flight changes/cancellations (I arrived home a day and a half late) and my compo was a hotel room when I was forced to stay overnight in Sydney... nothing else even offered whereas others were put up in Dallas and given multiple meal vouchers, etc. Further annoyingly, I had paid more for short layovers both directions and also had 2 cancellations/reschedules on my outbound. Oh well. I got there in the end.

 

[justinbrett]

This is currently screening in the SIN Flounge. No audio though.

 

[Hvr]

I loath shots like that. It what 4 Corners does all the time. The 'good guys' are filmed in convivial settings, having a friendly chat which the program 'listens in' to. The 'bad guys' are filmed in stark settings, often in defensive postures and sometimes with sinister-type music in the back-ground.

I doubt that 4 Corners is the only program that does that. Indeed, I would suggest that it would be SOP for how programs want to portray a particular person.

Basically straight from the Frontline documentary series on how to 'tell a story'.

 

[Vic]

Well just saw a big chunk of the program last night. The lost luggage bit at the beginning. Her bag was lost, and it was weeks and months of contact with zero help from Qantas. Then when four corners contacts Qantas suddenly Qantas actually tries to help AND then find the bag within days.

So basically, the bag was sitting there, it was easy to find, but NO ONE at qantas was willing to actually help someone who paid them for a service. This is not an isolated event, we know it's not isolated. Plus there is a picture of a room full of lost bags, and I'm 100% certain the owners of those bags have tried to get them back.

I'm appalled by the victim blaming in this thread. She shouldn't put valuables in the bag?! A pair of jeans costs more than the cost of getting your PhD certificate re-issued. Am I not supposed to pack clothes in my suitcase.

The LACK of action by qantas is indefensible.

 

[Catweazle]

I doubt that 4 Corners is the only program that does that. Indeed, I would suggest that it would be SOP for how programs want to portray a particular person.

Basically straight from the Frontline documentary series on how to 'tell a story'.

That was a documentary?

 

[JohnK]

Well just saw a big chunk of the program last night. The lost luggage bit at the beginning. Her bag was lost, and it was weeks and months of contact with zero help from Qantas. Then when four corners contacts Qantas suddenly Qantas actually tries to help AND then find the bag within days.

So basically, the bag was sitting there, it was easy to find, but NO ONE at qantas was willing to actually help someone who paid them for a service. This is not an isolated event, we know it's not isolated. Plus there is a picture of a room full of lost bags, and I'm 100% certain the owners of those bags have tried to get them back.

I'm appalled by the victim blaming in this thread. She shouldn't put valuables in the bag?! A pair of jeans costs more than the cost of getting your PhD certificate re-issued. Am I not supposed to pack clothes in my suitcase.

The LACK of action by qantas is indefensible.

I'm never sure who is responsible for bags.

I recall 15 years ago had a tight connection in LGA and my 2 bags did not make the flight to TPA. One of the bags had expensive gifts for relatives.

Next day flew TPA-MIA-DFW-ORD-LHR-ATH obviously without my luggage. Had 3 days in ATH and the day I flew ATH-SKG I was reunited with one of my bags with expensive gifts but not my clothes. No sign of other bag.

4 days later back in ATH for flight to LHR and no sign of my other bag. I had some time to kill before the flight and they said I could go to the lost baggage room. Bags everywhere form floor to ceiling. I'd given up and as I was walking out my bag caught my eye.

AA lost my bag, flew with BA and bag sitting in ATH airport. Who's responsible? What can AA do? Who knows if I had walked out of that room without my bag whether I would have seen my bag again.

Someone has to go through each of those bags and find where they belong and reunite with their owners but bags keep getting added to these rooms. The impression I got from the staff is they just work there and couldn't care if you're reunited with your bag or not.

This is one of the huge problems with the airline industry made worse by outsourcing. Responsibility. It's not just a bag. They're my belongings and some are going to be very valuable.

 

[Vic]

I'm never sure who is responsible for bags.

I recall 15 years ago had a tight connection in LGA and my 2 bags did not make the flight to TPA. One of the bags had expensive gifts for relatives.

Next day flew TPA-MIA-DFW-ORD-LHR-ATH obviously without my luggage. Had 3 days in ATH and the day I flew ATH-SKG I was reunited with one of my bags with expensive gifts but not my clothes. No sign of other bag.

4 days later back in ATH for flight to LHR and no sign of my other bag. I had some time to kill before the flight and they said I could go to the lost baggage room. Bags everywhere form floor to ceiling. I'd given up and as I was walking out my bag caught my eye.

AA lost my bag, flew with BA and bag sitting in ATH airport. Who's responsible? What can AA do? Who knows if I had walked out of that room without my bag whether I would have seen my bag again.

Someone has to go through each of those bags and find where they belong and reunite with their owners but bags keep getting added to these rooms. The impression I got from the staff is they just work there and couldn't care if you're reunited with your bag or not.

This is one of the huge problems with the airline industry made worse by outsourcing. Responsibility. It's not just a bag. They're my belongings and some are going to be very valuable.

You've made a fair point. I think having a complex itinerary is a bit different to a simple Alice Springs to where Sydney? You had multiple airlines and airports, in this story 1 airline and 2 airports. It really shouldn't be hard... Put it on one plane, take it off one plane.

I've also had a bag not make a LAX to DCA connection, QF - AA. But you know what, the bag was delivered to my hotel when it arrived at DCA. That's the common theme with your experience - SERVICE RECOVERY.

You went there and said there was a problem, and the airline let you search for your bag. In this the 4Corners story they contacted Qantas multiple times over weeks and months, and no one said 'here is the room of bags go search'.

Here we have Qantas messing up the most basic flight option, and then completely failing the service recovery. Well until contacted by the media. How many people are missing bags that Four Corners haven't asked about.

the victim is not to blame here.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Alan Joyce can certainly talk, no umm, hesitations, maybe it was all rehearsed, but he can certainly give an explanation for all the problems they (QF) has/has faced.
Guess that is why he got that job, talk.
But action, don't know yet, have to wait and see.
Like for eg, if he brings back QF call centres to Aust soil, ...

 

[Happy Dude]

Your situation @JohnK is exponentially more complicated than the ASP - BNE flight in the story.

I love the very telling quote by Alan Joyce, something along the lines that, "No-one is to blame. Not the airline, not the airport, not the staff', but the customers aren't match fit. We're trying to deal with the aftermath of COVID".

The program was really just about how QF outsourced jobs, mostly illegally, but can't or won't rehire, and customers, safety, and employment conditions aren't a priority despite all the experts saying they should be.