ABC 4 Corners on Qantas - Monday 5 September

[RooFlyer]

The QANTAS Sale Act 1992 does provide some basis for the "National carrier" moniker - whether people like it or not.

Also must have at least one Australian based call centre. IIRC

Something I didn't remember. The Sale Act was extensively modified in 2014 Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014

Qantas was privatised between 1992 and 1995. Under the Qantas Sale Act 1992 (QSA) foreign ownership is capped, the airline must keep ‘Qantas’ in its name and it must remain substantially based in Australia.

This Bill repeals those rules, leaving only foreign ownership to be regulated by legislation - the Air Navigation Act 1920.

There is more.

 

[Quickstatus]

AJ and Qantas refused.

I would too. "Not My" ABC is not the independent journalism I expect.
The problem with these short form production format is that it does not deep dive into the issues at the airline. The FC production is just a snippet of short comments from a variety of people. . An indepth live non edited interview is the only way to go.
1,2,3 hours even. Not this format.

I do not accept that the airline "never ever" compromises on safety. All indications are that the airline is stressed at many levels. That is a threat to safety. Regardless of where the truth is vis a vis management vs workers, the relationship between management and the workers is broken. That cannot be good for safety.

Re Ms Gall and her PhD certificate and necklace: Why pack that in checked luggage?

 

[Austman]

I thought the program was just a repeat of what we have seen time and time (and time) again over the past few decades:

That Qantas is reducing its costs and that those who work for them (or who used to) consider their actions to be safety concerns.

Added was the COVID factor.

 

[Quickstatus]

program was just a repeat

Yes, it just basically focuses a spot light on the struggles at the airline at a time when the public is looking.
In better times, no one would care (look) so any spotlight was moot.

 

[Brettmcg]

Not wishing to offend some of the former employees interviewed, but I think a few of them have a fairly overblown view of their role in the company.

The guy in Fleet Presentation who implied that Qantas aircraft were cleaner and better presented when QF-employed staff undertook these tasks...I mean, LOL. Anyone who has flown with QF (or any airline) for sometime, knows that aircraft are literally flying garbage bins.

I have a million gripes with QF at the moment, but it seems to me that most of the interviewees (and the journo) would like to return to the glory days of government ownership, and have zero understanding of the highly competitive market in which Qantas operates.

 

[Tropic]

I'm prob going to continue flying QF domestically regardless during this period of turbulence so all they need to do is start serving F/B in J commensurate with the fares they charging, recruit some cabin staff who at least can pretend to be happy to serve said food and bev to pax and ensure safety isnt traded off for profit and I'll be happy to sit down and ride it out. Will fly int on other carriers as QFi just not competitive in this space IMHO. The rest is just noise..

 

[MJHoops]

Sounds about right, senior command jobs / promotions etc. go based on seniority in the organisation … I think that’s pretty much every airline isn’t it?

The Seniority List at Qantas for pilots is built into the enterprise agreement
Available here for example is the short haul EA

I would venture that by definition it creates inefficiency in hiring and in employees being disincentivised to leave. But I don’t claim to be expert in the pilot workforce arena

Qantas will be stuck with that List forever unless they do outsource pilot jobs to other corporate entities

 

[JasonK]

I watched a bit of it so far (it's on YouTube if anyone is interested). Not sure if it's mentioned in the thread already (but I did browse through). The person at the start who packed valuables like the necklace and PhD should have just carried it on board. I wouldn't put items like this in my checked in bag regardless of the airline!

 

[CaptJCool]

Those “in the know” know their segment of any business and often got no idea of what’s going round elsewhere.

QF were late to the baggage outsourcing party. Dull thought I know but Where was the outrage for Dnata baggage handlers when they began working for other airlines? And not a great deal of outrage when they missed out on Jobseeker as foreign companies...

oh look 4 corners replay 11pm Tuesday channel 20, just started so I’ll report back when it’s done

 

[CaptJCool]

Those “in the know” know their segment of any business and often got no idea of what’s going round elsewhere.

QF were late to the baggage outsourcing party. Dull thought I know but Where was the outrage for Dnata baggage handlers when they began working for other airlines? And not a great deal of outrage when they missed out on Jobseeker as foreign companies...

oh look 4 corners replay 11pm Tuesday channel 20, just started so I’ll report back when it’s done

So apparently QF had to stay perfect despite the once in a century pandemic wreaking havoc with the passenger ranks and ergo the workforce. They were expected to “run normally” and Be the only airline not to suffer the disaster that befell all other airlines. Oh really ?

”my supervisor had 20 years of experience so he told me all the tricks of the trade which weren’t in the training nor manual”. Seems harsh to rely on proprietary knowledge to run a well oiled system ?

stood down for unprotected industrial action when it was apparent PAX were flying in March 2020 with COVID - in unprecedented times it seems very harsh to force someone to work in a location where they might catch Covid

loyalty to the company

we are a family

we were performing like a damn good AFL squad


POST COVID
planned work v time available - no longer time to double-check that mistakes weren’t made - fatigue makes for distractions and poor work

no one here. The knock-on effect of schedules

sensible use of contractors except why 4 different pay rates across subsidiaries and labour hire - its an industry practice to suppress wages..... but serving employees won’t agree to reduced wages so well we need to recruit a new batch who will. this goes to impact on profit but there are other means to pay employees like perks and as many shares options or a % thereof as AJ receives himself

Illegal sackings because they occurred in the protected industrial action period, plus then the subsequent turnover rate - had an AFL workforce and now got a parklands team that can’t cope with the intensity and relentlessness of flight after flight to unload and upload...

pilots want job security cause they have a unique skills thst aren’t portable (!?!) sic

the safety concerns aside the Covid catching issue and the extensive engineering maintenance hours that were necessary to keep the fleet afloat were ringing alarm bells about the consequences of what’s likely to happen rather than anything that had actually occurred.

to me, it was a shot across the bows by one woke org to another to lift their game to assure QFs future success. Yet, the ABC didn’t suffer scheduling outages nor snap lockdowns forcing 79% rates of cancellations like July 2021 nor overwhelmed call centres nor mismatched skilling up periods compared to when flights resumed full bottle - incredibly difficult to pick when restart was viable so that synchronisation of skills refreshers to open for business became a massive “single point of failure”. After all, the main purpose of an airline is to carry passengers on aircraft with fully trained and credentialed pilots and maintenance engineers Prepping the aircraft for ongoing operations. Not an easy task at the best of times. its a huge logistics management exercise to forward schedule while state health officials were moving the goalposts and PAX were holding off buying tics or having to wait hours to deal with cancellation after cancellation. It’s not so simple as to put all PAX from the cancelled flight onto the next ALREADY SOLD out flight. Musical chairs anyone ? so in its imperfection, when the music stopped, there simply weren’t enough chairs for everyone ....especially when the baggage handlers were relative parklands players... that being a decision in QF control which as it turned out, appearEd ill advised. The Wizard of ID....

 

[SydneySwan]

If you want to run with the AFL analogy then I think once flying restarted AJ thought Qantas were Geelong but it turns out that they were North Melbourne. AJ tried to blame the fans for not being match fit but it turns out it was the Qantas team. North Melbourne worked out that they needed a new coach and have recruited Clarko for next season. It is time for Qantas to do the same.

 

[UP4014]

I watched a bit of it so far (it's on YouTube if anyone is interested). Not sure if it's mentioned in the thread already (but I did browse through). The person at the start who packed valuables like the necklace and PhD should have just carried it on board. I wouldn't put items like this in my checked in bag regardless of the airline!

Here is the thing, people on this forum know not to do that, but Joe or Jill public is not so savvy because they don't have an obsession with airline travel and the pitfalls as anyone who signs up to a frequent flyer forum would have.

When it comes to checked luggage, in 40 years of flying I have only ever had one bag go missing (QF Adelaide of all places) and is was returned to me within 2 days, so historically it has been very good but now obviously it's become hopeless. Lets hope it returns to very good very soon.

 

[jb747]

If you have a A330 captain from another airline I can understand the need to train them in the QF processes. However, it seems (to the uneducated like myself) a bit of a waste of resources to do the type training again to be a A330 captain. I mean how is the aircraft any different to fly between airlines? </ignorant questions>

When I sat down in an A380, as often as not, I had never met any of the other pilots before. Nevertheless, we’d mesh perfectly, right down to saying the exact same words. You cannot achieve that quickly. It’s not just the type course but also all of the other courses, training, and sims along the way. Note too, that a type course, is not command training. Nevertheless as far as I know, even those airlines that have historically taken instant captains, invariably get them to do the entire type training again. You simply cannot assume that something was done adequately at the previous airline. Consider the stories about pilot training and qualification at the various Indian airlines for a start.

Do you know what the hold up is in the training? Is it limited by the simulators or something other constraint?

Sims. Available sectors for line training. Training personnel. Nothing that planning ahead wouldn’t have resolved. I hear that they’re going to start using an A380 sim in Singapore now.

That Qantas is reducing its costs and that those who work for them (or who used to) consider their actions to be safety concerns.

What they seem to be doing is reducing the number of slices swiss cheese. As I’ve said many times, CEOs can take actions that reduce safety, but there is virtually nothing they do (or can do) that will increase it. Additionally, they actually have no idea of the safety implications of their actions. Perhaps they don’t care either. There is a lot of the frog in boiling water to this.

Qantas will be stuck with that List forever unless they do outsource pilot jobs to other corporate entities

The seniority list is simply a queue. The only thing it entitles you to is the right to bid for training. It does not entitle you to a slot, and it most certainly does not guarantee an outcome. What you seem to be proposing is a continual flow of pilots at the top of the queue, bypassing all those who have been doing the FO and SO jobs, accruing experience. Your reward for that patience will be to have the slot snatched away. Actually that sounds exactly like AJ‘s form of management.

I’m reminded of a comment from our manager standards, after he’d done an audit on another airline that had hired a lot of ’instants’ during the 89 dispute. “A third are fine. Another third will be okay with further training. The remainder should be fired immediately”.

 

[UP4014]

If you want to run with the AFL analogy then I think once flying restarted AJ thought Qantas were Geelong but it turns out that they were North Melbourne. AJ tried to blame the fans for not being match fit but it turns out it was the Qantas team. North Melbourne worked out that they needed a new coach and have recruited Clarko for next season. It is time for Qantas to do the same.

I think when things started to go south for QF and Joyce came out and even partially blamed the passengers as not match fit the media decided to have a closer look. I guess the lesson is if you are going to point the blame elsewhere (even one little bit) don't be in a glass house.

And as they say, the rest is history.....

 

[kangarooflyer88]

The problem with these short form production format is that it does not deep dive into the issues at the airline. The FC production is just a snippet of short comments from a variety of people. . An indepth live non edited interview is the only way to go.
1,2,3 hours even. Not this format.

Watched the piece by Four Corners on Qantas yesterday, and generally agree with the comments others have posted: not much of an eye-opener if you've been on this forum or have been at an Australian port within the last 6 months (irrespective of airline).

Re Ms Gall and her PhD certificate and necklace: Why pack that in checked luggage?

I'm a firm believer that all Australians should be given travel training before being given their passport. Basic stuff like how to board a plane efficiently or not putting anything you cannot afford losing in a checked bag. From my experience, the only way you can be sure your checked baggage isn't lost is if you pack a fire arm in the bag (i.e. starter pistol). Generally speaking baggage handlers and airlines hate having to file all that paperwork when they lose a bag that contains a firearm.

I thought the program was just a repeat of what we have seen time and time (and time) again over the past few decades:

That Qantas is reducing its costs and that those who work for them (or who used to) consider their actions to be safety concerns.

Indeed. A lot of folks have been calling for Uncle Alan's ouster for many years. If they didn't get rid of AJ when he used heavy handed tactics like shutting down the airline when pilots went on strike, why on earth would anyone think that he would be held accountable for delayed flights? What's clear is Australia needs to have more consumer rights when it comes to delays and cancellations. For instance, I reckon if Qantas had to fork out $600 in cash compensation for arriving at your destination 4 hours late, Qantas will be more punctual. And the best part about these consumer rights is it doesn't cost the airline a penny. Don't believe me? Look at EasyJet and RyanAir which operate in the context of EU 261 and yet provide dirt cheap fares across the continent. What consumer rights does is it forces airlines to be punctual and to run a good operation. And we know running a good operation will reduce costs on the airlines (i.e. less crew being paid overtime sitting on planes that don't work).

The guy in Fleet Presentation who implied that Qantas aircraft were cleaner and better presented when QF-employed staff undertook these tasks...I mean, LOL. Anyone who has flown with QF (or any airline) for sometime, knows that aircraft are literally flying garbage bins.

In the context of COVID we know that cleaning surfaces is a joke. It's an airborne virus: only the HEPA filters on board and the mask you must wear can solve this issue!

I'm prob going to continue flying QF domestically regardless during this period of turbulence so all they need to do is start serving F/B in J commensurate with the fares they charging, recruit some cabin staff who at least can pretend to be happy to serve said food and bev to pax and ensure safety isnt traded off for profit and I'll be happy to sit down and ride it out. Will fly int on other carriers as QFi just not competitive in this space IMHO. The rest is just noise..

Like anything travel related the Bob Barker rules applies: most people will fly with any airline if The Price is Right. Checking the QF site today I see they are selling SYD > PER for $175 one-way, particularly given the points upgrades can provide decent value, particularly on the A330 service. I reckon many folks will leap at that offer, particularly if they are holding one of Uncle Alan's handkerchiefs (i.e. $50 voucher).

I think when things started to go south for QF and Joyce came out and even partially blamed the passengers as not match fit the media decided to have a closer look. I guess the lesson is if you are going to point the blame elsewhere (even one little bit) don't be in a glass house.

You hit the nail on the head. Frankly Australians don't care about how QF employees are treated. If they did there would have been an uproar when Uncle Alan illegally fired ground staff or suspended service to force unionized employees back to work. The question now is if the gestures provided by Uncle Alan are enough in terms of status extensions, the aforementioned handkerchief ($50 voucher), extra award availability and bonus points for super-elites. I reckon the answer will be a resounding yes.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Seat0B]

After his appearance on 4 Corners, and now this article, it will be interesting to see how long Mr Lucas remains at Qantas, not withstanding any 'immunity' his position may offer.

Exactly what I said to Mr Seat0A the other night - I said "I wonder if this is his last week at Qantas?"

 

[Vic]

I've obviously heard it referred to as that, but in my experience it's generally referred to as the Reason model in aviation safety circles (named after James Reason who published it).

If ABC wanted to prosecute a case that Qantas is becoming more unsafe (and these employment conditions are a factor - but they're not the only factor) - I don't think it did a very good job. But as others said I don't think that was their aim - this was all about the unions.

If we look at the opening of Reason's abstract:

Several recent accidents in complex high-risk technologies had their primary origins in a variety of delayed-action human failures committed long before an emergency state could be recognized. These disasters were due to the adverse conjunction of a large number of causal factors, each one necessary but singly insufficient to achieve the catastrophic outcome.

IMO employment conditions can rightly be seen in the context of a "singly insufficient" factor that (EDIT) might contribute to "catastrophic outcome".

 

[Seat0B]

What's clear is Australia needs to have more consumer rights when it comes to delays and cancellations.

A lot of people are saying this - @MEL_Traveller as well. Could this forum possibly arrange a working group or something to start lobbying the relevant authorities - whoever they may be- to get something started? I would be happy to volunteer, and hopefully someone with some legal experience might join in, and maybe @AFF Editor too?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

A lot of people are saying this - @MEL_Traveller as well. Could this forum possibly arrange a working group or something to start lobbying the relevant authorities - whoever they may be- to get something started? I would be happy to volunteer, and hopefully someone with some legal experience might join in, and maybe @AFF Editor too?

Agree with the sentiment here, if there's any time to make the lobbying push now is the time. When we hear stories of folks being stranded for a week in Bali (not the worse place to be stranded BTW), lost bags, 14 hours hold times, etc. In terms of lobbying effort how would this work? I'm not familiar with Australian politics, although I hear it's very similar to Canadian politics (i.e. there are elected MPs and appointed Senators). I think the key here is framing, consumer's rights is corporate rights, is shareholders rights. Anyone who thinks that a company offering a substandard product is working in the best interest of shareholders will be disappointed!

-RooFlyer88

 

[BD1959]

Did anyone else at the term "Fleet Presentation"? You're a cleaner ...It's no wonder the organization is going to pot when some committee spent days and $$$ coming up with such convoluted terms.

In the context of COVID we know that cleaning surfaces is a joke. It's an airborne virus: only the HEPA filters on board and the mask you must wear can solve this issue!

We know that now, I'm not so sure this was known when the pandemic first struck and I can fully understand the push for decent sanitiser regardless of whether we're in the middle of COVID or in 5 years time. I would like to know my tray table has been santised even though I treat it as though it hasn't.

The issue of multi-company employees is nothing new and not QF specific. Many companies have adopted such - some even in the name of multiculturalism ... decades ago BA employed some India-based cabin crew specifically for routes between the subcontinent and Europe; AY currently use Asia-based crew. Some of the better QF crews I came across were from the LHR base (I specifically asked them).

I do baulk at the thought that Engineers are potentially not completing work - or not getting work sufficiently signed-off prior to dispatching. I think that claim needs to be investigated externally.

One final thought: whatever happened to whistle-blower protection?

Regards,

BD