ABC 4 Corners on Qantas - Monday 5 September

[Melburnian1]

In one of two official responses, QF makes this claim:

"...We note that the unions are not making these claims of other airlines, most of whom use the same ground handling firms as Qantas and who have had similar, and in some cases worse operational performance due to staffing challenges..."

Even accounting for the greater number of international flights that QFi has in and out of Oz, it's clear from the delays/cancellations threads on AFF to which I contribute, and data from BITRE (which doesn't measure everything) that QFi is performing more poorly than the vast majority of international airlines that service Oz.

Domestically, while very small, ZL is the winner but VAd is often ahead of QFd and JQd.

QF's claims above don't bear relationship to reality, especially for international flights.

 

[muppet]

Related but not related. I was on a flight a couple of weeks ago and while waiting at SYD for them to fix the airbridge so we could get off the plane I was chatting to a QF A330 training captain who was sitting across the aisle. He was telling me they have problems with pilot shortages. They don't have the capacity to upskill junior pilots fast enough. Ie, constraints with training capacity.

I asked why they can't just hire at the levels they need. Apparently the agreement at QF is new pilots come in as the most junior and you can only move up internally.

Perhaps @jb747 can shed some more light on this?

Sounds about right, senior command jobs / promotions etc. go based on seniority in the organisation … I think that’s pretty much every airline isn’t it?

 

[justinbrett]

He's used to getting fluffy questions from travel writers and the like, or praise from accolytes. Here, briefly he had a woke organisation (the ABC) sending along someone to ask questions Mr Joyce would prefer never to confront.

All the more reason to do the full unedited interview then - there would be no hiding on difficult questions.

Sticking to "it's not the way we do things" excuse is a bit weak.

Though I don't think your assertation is correct - even "fluffy" shows like Today / Sunrise give him a grilling on most occasions. I think Karl Stefanovic and Deborah Knight have both been quite vocally anti-Qantas. And by the way, their line of questioning was much more relevant to the travelling public than this guy from the ABC.

 

[Daver6]

Sounds about right, senior command jobs / promotions etc. go based on seniority in the organisation … I think that’s pretty much every airline isn’t it?

This makes sense in theory. However, if you can't train them fast enough to meet demand it seems ridiculous you can't bring in new folks who are already trained.

 

[Tropic]

think Karl Stefanovic and Deborah Knight have both been quite vocally anti-Qantas.

Ooooh some formidiable journalistic talent there... AJ would rightly be shaking in his (handmade italian kid leather cowboy ) boots....

 

[justinbrett]

Ooooh some formidiable journalistic talent there... AJ would rightly be shaking in his (handmade italian kid leather cowboy ) boots....

Well that's my point. If those kind of people are asking the tough questions - it's a pretty inaccurate statement to saying he's been given an easy ride.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Ooooh some formidiable journalistic talent there... AJ would rightly be shaking in his (handmade italian kid leather cowboy ) boots....

Have you heard what type of pizza the Dalai Llama orders?

 

[jpp42]

All the more reason to do the full unedited interview then - there would be no hiding on difficult questions.

Sticking to "it's not the way we do things" excuse is a bit weak.

I think the problem is that Joyce would spend the 15 minutes mostly dodging the questions, which would get boring for the average viewer. I am in agreement that this isn't the format of a show like Four Corners.... people want to see a story narrative, not a "politician" waffling around forever. In the only way that Four Corners would accept, editors would be able to cut out the waffle and only show the useful soundbites, which Joyce knows won't make him look good.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just watched it on replay. I guess we can dismiss it as just another ‘rant’ against Qantas. The National broadcaster Vs the (self-appointed) national carrier.

 

[jb747]

This makes sense in theory. However, if you can't train them fast enough to meet demand it seems ridiculous you can't bring in new folks who are already trained.

Ignoring for a moment that bringing people from outside effectively shafts your current pilots, many of whom have already been in waiting for decades...you won't have any great saving in training. You will still need to put them through an entire type course, simply to ensure they are doing things your way, and not the way of their previous employers.

The only reason they are short is because the glorious leader did not anticipate the lead time, even though it was blatantly obvious.

 

[SYD]

The National broadcaster Vs the (self-appointed) national carrier.

The QANTAS Sale Act 1992 does provide some basis for the "National carrier" moniker - whether people like it or not.

 

[jpp42]

Ignoring for a moment that bringing people from outside effectively shafts your current pilots, many of whom have already been in waiting for decades...you won't have any great saving in training. You will still need to put them through an entire type course, simply to ensure they are doing things your way, and not the way of their previous employers.

It's worth noting that the nature of an airline pilot, similar to that of other "operator" jobs like train driver or nuclear power plant operator, etc, requires absolute adherence to key procedures at all times, as well as significant domain knowledge on the equipment and systems. For any of these domains, you can be an experienced operator, but switching to a different network or employer will require a significant amount of training on new policies, new equipment, and new routes/network/territory. Sometimes, organisations like Sydney Trains will even prefer all their new hires to have no experience at all, so the new operators can be completely molded to their liking without pre-conceived notions. Many European air carriers now do this for their junior first officers (though it can be controversial). There are certainly cases , especially in emergencies, where experience helps - but day to day it's not as important as adherence to policy, systems knowledge, and everything else that has to be trained regardless of experience.

Also, because operators in these careers - trains, planes, power plants, whatever - do not have much say in exactly how to do their job, seniority is the best way of ranking or classifying employees - it's hard to say one person is a better pilot than the other. All Qantas pilots are excellent, they have to pass the high bar to get there. Similarly, there's not really any way they can distinguish themselves once they're there other than continuing to fly safely and accurately. Hence, the seniority system.... something you can't really mess with.

 

[SeatBackForward]

The only reason they are short is because the glorious leader did not anticipate the lead time, even though it was blatantly obvious.

And that's when it was reveled that Alan Joyce's fantasy of shifting Qantas from an airline to a financial services company were thwarted by the unexpected diminishing impact of Covid.

 

[bussyboy]

Just read the Qantas response - was that all the journalist's questions?? If so it definitely looks like a fishing expedition for sound bites.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Additional

I’m proud to be a Qantas pilot – but it appears hell-bent on cutting costs and auctioning jobs to the lowest bidder | Tony Lucas

Qantas pilots are no longer regarded as assets but instead pitted against each other in an industrial take on The Hunger Games

www.theguardian.com

 

[serfty]

The only reason they are short is because the glorious leader did not anticipate the lead time, even though it was blatantly obvious.

Or perhaps there's some competition as well: Ask The Pilot

Now here's something I didn't know about. Australian pilots are able to access a US E-3 visa, which allows them to work for US carriers. The same visa also allows their spouse to work. Australians are the only ones with access to this visa. Some CEOs in Oz might find that the pilots they thought they could 'race to the bottom' might have found a much more attractive alternative. The numbers involved could totally denude Oz airlines.

 

[Daver6]

Ignoring for a moment that bringing people from outside effectively shafts your current pilots, many of whom have already been in waiting for decades...you won't have any great saving in training. You will still need to put them through an entire type course, simply to ensure they are doing things your way, and not the way of their previous employers.

The only reason they are short is because the glorious leader did not anticipate the lead time, even though it was blatantly obvious.

If you have a A330 captain from another airline I can understand the need to train them in the QF processes. However, it seems (to the uneducated like myself) a bit of a waste of resources to do the type training again to be a A330 captain. I mean how is the aircraft any different to fly between airlines? </ignorant questions>

Do you know what the hold up is in the training? Is it limited by the simulators or something other constraint?

 

[RooFlyer]

Additional

I’m proud to be a Qantas pilot – but it appears hell-bent on cutting costs and auctioning jobs to the lowest bidder | Tony Lucas

Qantas pilots are no longer regarded as assets but instead pitted against each other in an industrial take on The Hunger Games

www.theguardian.com

After his appearance on 4 Corners, and now this article, it will be interesting to see how long Mr Lucas remains at Qantas, not withstanding any 'immunity' his position may offer.

 

[Rangalad]

For us maybe nothing new, but for people who don't get on a commercial airline forum every day to check out what QF's latest failing may be it's an eye opener.

What the program showed was the theme is similar to many comments on AFF regards the subject and gives it a much wider audience.

How many outside these fora know about the off shore call centres, outsourced ground handling, numerous crew contracts et. al.

 

[Rangalad]

The QANTAS Sale Act 1992 does provide some basis for the "National carrier" moniker - whether people like it or not.

Also must have at least one Australian based call centre. IIRC