ABC 4 Corners on Qantas - Monday 5 September

[Anna]

Very disappointing program. Just a lot of people with axes to grind, including the journo who was clearly annoyed Joyce wasn't going to let himself be taken out of context by soundbite quotes edited to suit the agenda of the program (see also, 'not matchfit', a couple of words taken by media out of what was originally a long answer by Joyce).

If they wanted the assertions about safety to be taken seriously I expected at a minimum to see someone from CASA interviewed about that. Or someone independent.

 

[BAM1748]

QF - The Spirit of Aus… no, The Spirit of Globalisation.
The Spirit of Outsourcing.
The Spirit of Swiss Cheese.
sorry, just getting silly now

The Swiss Cheese is exactly what some of the talk was about in the show, when all the holes line up in your slices of Swiss cheese you get a disaster. In the accident world it's know as the Swiss Cheese Model.

Swiss cheese model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[1022]

I felt the show tried to fit too many threads into a 45 minute piece. A proper, factual deep dive into the illegality of the sacking of ground staff and the underlying, systemic reasons why the outsourced solution has so far failed to deliver would have been better investigative journalism in my opinion. The pilots that they spoke to provided good perspectives on how this has affected ops.

Leave the discussion on shell companies and multiple cabin crew awards for a different day.

 

[jase05]

Just more union propaganda, what a shock.

 

[whughes3]

Another interesting article here...

Qantas, the trying kangaroo: why things won’t get better any time soon

there are no easy solutions to the problems Qantas faces. It must balance the cost cutting required with further aggravating its workforce.

theconversation.com

 

[moa999]

It sends a message to the other journalists in the room,

It's a shareholders meeting, not a presser for journos.

Put simply when Qantas was competing domestically against Ansett, it was ok to be fat and bloated (cost wise).
It's very different now that its Virgin, Rex and Bonza.

And equally internationally the pullback of the European airlines and rise of the ME and Asian carriers has vastly changed the competitive dynamics.

 

[eastwest101]

Another inreresting article here...

Qantas, the trying kangaroo: why things won’t get better any time soon

there are no easy solutions to the problems Qantas faces. It must balance the cost cutting required with further aggravating its workforce.

theconversation.com

The key point in that article was "But this combative stance on wages and conditions, and outsourcing so many key activities, has thinned corporate knowledge" E.g. When all you have in your toolbox is a hammer then everything looks like a nail.

The world is different from the pre-Covid19 world, outsourcing and driving down conditions won't work anymore and its effects are now harming the business from operating normally. And that coupled with arrogant senior management who cannot admit mistakes will allow this situation to continue/fester until another external crisis brings things to a head, and requires a complete restructure, maybe even forced administration restructure.

 

[justinbrett]

In the accident world it's know as the Swiss Cheese Model.

Swiss cheese model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've obviously heard it referred to as that, but in my experience it's generally referred to as the Reason model in aviation safety circles (named after James Reason who published it).

If ABC wanted to prosecute a case that Qantas is becoming more unsafe (and these employment conditions are a factor - but they're not the only factor) - I don't think it did a very good job. But as others said I don't think that was their aim - this was all about the unions.

 

[BAM1748]

But as others said I don't think that was their aim - this was all about the unions.

In your opinion, I think you're wrong on the show being all about the unions. It was a bigger picture view of how to race to the bottom using different entities employing people for the same job.

 

[justinbrett]

In your opinion, I think you're wrong on the show being all about the unions. It was a bigger picture view of how to race to the bottom using different entities employing people for the same job.

Sure, happy to widen it to "Employment Conditions". But you can't argue that most of the speakers weren't union affiliated.

 

[Mattg]

It's a shareholders meeting, not a presser for journos.

The other people in that room looked like journalists to me. It was a press conference.

That said, it’s not really clear from the episode how much time the ABC reporter was asking off-topic questions and hogging the microphone. Obviously Qantas (and possibly some of the other journalists in the room) would not have liked this.

Given AJ didn’t agree to an interview, I’m not sure what else they could have done to try to get a response from AJ to the core issues raised in the episode? Yes, Qantas released a statement but someone other than AJ probably spent days working on the wording of that.

 

[jpp42]

Part of the reason there were so many union members is because they are allowed to be on camera, have the training and experience doing so, and are easy to find/contact. As someone else stated above, using the actors/shadows to represent employees who are not allowed to speak is a bit unsatisfactory, so they didn't want too much of that.

Personally I agree that the extreme focus on someone who put a priceless heirloom into a checked bag was a poor way to start the programme, especially given that the bag was in fact found and the heirloom not permanently lost. If highlighting the customer experience was a priority, they should have found a family who lost their holiday to Bali because they were stranded (a la current Jetstar problems), someone who missed their brother's wedding due to their award ticket being cancelled by incompetent call centre stuff-ups, etc. etc. But this would have taken more research to find I suppose.

Also, I'm not able to access the Qantas statement ( https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-on-claims-in-four-corners-story/) - lawyers took it down or something??

 

[Ade]

Watching the episode now in YT.

 

[AIRwin]

Also, I'm not able to access the Qantas statement ( https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-on-claims-in-four-corners-story/) - lawyers took it down or something??

It's working for me...

 

[Mwenenzi]

.

Also, I'm not able to access the Qantas statement ( https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-on-claims-in-four-corners-story/) - lawyers took it down or something??

Link works for me-->https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-on-claims-in-four-corners-story/

And -->https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/

 

[Melburnian1]

Thought it was basically a nothing story in the sense there was nothing we don’t already know.

True for AFFers like you, making it your priority to be informed.

For millions of travellers who don't participate in aviation blogs, read up on the subject and/or regard air transport as just another way to get from A to B, there was new information such as the alleged safety-related incident with the freight/bags/mail being placed in the incorrect holds i.e. front loading ought have been placed in the rear and vice versa.

 

[Daver6]

Related but not related. I was on a flight a couple of weeks ago and while waiting at SYD for them to fix the airbridge so we could get off the plane I was chatting to a QF A330 training captain who was sitting across the aisle. He was telling me they have problems with pilot shortages. They don't have the capacity to upskill junior pilots fast enough. Ie, constraints with training capacity.

I asked why they can't just hire at the levels they need. Apparently the agreement at QF is new pilots come in as the most junior and you can only move up internally.

Perhaps @jb747 can shed some more light on this?

 

[Melburnian1]

Thats the kind of thing that AJ wanted to avoid with a pre-recorded interview, where its cut and spliced in a way to take things out of context. Oldest trick in the book. There’s no greater truth than airing a live, unedited interview.

Ironically, Mr Joyce recently said he wasn't a politician, but he sure acts like one.

This episode of 4Corners briefly showed him looking the most uncomfortable I'd ever seen him. He's used to getting fluffy questions from travel writers and the like, or praise from accolytes. Here, briefly he had a woke organisation (the ABC) sending along someone to ask questions Mr Joyce would prefer never to confront.

 

[ausfox]

The lower link is working on an iPad.

 

[RooFlyer]

I asked why they can't just hire at the levels they need. Apparently the agreement at QF is new pilots come in as the most junior and you can only move up internally.

Just like captains in the British navy in Nelson’s time! I just hope your chap won’t be ‘flogged around the fleet’ for speaking to you.