Air China considering CX acquisition (potential oneworld exit to *A?)

[kamchatsky]

If you read between the lines that is exactly what he meant. DO read all his previous post.
Quote"The HK government wants this airline dead in an attempt to shut down hkers from leaving HK to UK under BNO visa scheme!" Unquote.
I know China bashing maybe fashionable but to suggest that they would destroy an airline to stop migration is purely conjecture bordering being ludicrous.
AND Swire is NOT controlled by the Chinese. If they sold CX, it would only be a commercial decision. What CA will do to CX is anybody's guess. Whatever the outcome, you do not have to fly CA or CX.

Over the long term, I think Swire will sell CX to CA, only because of the political pressure from Beijing to Swire. They still have a lot of business in HKSAR and China, and there will be some kind of sweetener from Beijing to "assist" Swire selling.

Rightly or wrongly, HK is becoming more and more of a standard Chinese city. It is happening and it is not going back whether we like it or not. Article 23 will pass very quickly, as no one in HK would openly oppose it as they may end up infringing NSL laws.

 

[drron]

If you read between the lines that is exactly what he meant. DO read all his previous post.
Quote"The HK government wants this airline dead in an attempt to shut down hkers from leaving HK to UK under BNO visa scheme!" Unquote.
I know China bashing maybe fashionable but to suggest that they would destroy an airline to stop migration is purely conjecture bordering being ludicrous.
AND Swire is NOT controlled by the Chinese. If they sold CX, it would only be a commercial decision. What CA will do to CX is anybody's guess. Whatever the outcome, you do not have to fly CA or CX.

Swire may not be Chinese owned but the HK government certainly is now.
I had lunch with an ex CX Captain a week ago. He retired 11 years ago as it was a choice of retiring with benefits or being sacked after pressure was exerted by the Chinese. And that was 2011. China has a much more iron grip on Hong Kong than it did then.

You might remember when CX fired staff because of their pro democracy social media posts.

‘Stop terrorizing CX staff,’ Hong Kong protesters tell airline - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

Cathay CEO Augustus Tang (鄧健榮), who replaced Rupert Hogg after his shock resignation this month, told staff there was “zero tolerance for illegal activities” or policy breaches.

“Right now, we are one of the most watched companies in Hong Kong and indeed the world,” Tang said in a company memo. “The way every single one of us acts, not only at work serving our customers, but also outside work — on social media and in everyday life — impacts how we are perceived as a company.”

 

[tomlee1986]

Swire may not be Chinese owned but the HK government certainly is now.
I had lunch with an ex CX Captain a week ago. He retired 11 years ago as it was a choice of retiring with benefits or being sacked after pressure was exerted by the Chinese. And that was 2011. China has a much more iron grip on Hong Kong than it did then.

You might remember when CX fired staff because of their pro democracy social media posts.

‘Stop terrorizing CX staff,’ Hong Kong protesters tell airline - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

Cathay CEO Augustus Tang (鄧健榮), who replaced Rupert Hogg after his shock resignation this month, told staff there was “zero tolerance for illegal activities” or policy breaches.

“Right now, we are one of the most watched companies in Hong Kong and indeed the world,” Tang said in a company memo. “The way every single one of us acts, not only at work serving our customers, but also outside work — on social media and in everyday life — impacts how we are perceived as a company.”

this was already happening in 2019 when it was legal to protest in your own time, NOT in CX uniform, NOT using company resources or assets to protest at the time - what happened to those staff one may ask? they were ALL sacked for "misconduct"!

 

[Buggbear]

this is not because it is fashionable but sadly it is fact now days with the news of Article 23 about to be debated - the demand of the flights is extreme... and I dont like to talk politics here but it is sadly true as to CX - what makes you think the chinese government wont want to take over the airline and merge it with CA?

Interpret the way you want. Like I said, it's anybody's guess. I am not speculating what CA will do. You are the one that think that this is a foregone conclusion. You may be right but I highly doubt this but you have every right to speculate. And what do you know about Article 23.? Seriously!

Post automatically merged: Mar 8, 2024

Swire may not be Chinese owned but the HK government certainly is now.
I had lunch with an ex CX Captain a week ago. He retired 11 years ago as it was a choice of retiring with benefits or being sacked after pressure was exerted by the Chinese. And that was 2011. China has a much more iron grip on Hong Kong than it did then.

You might remember when CX fired staff because of their pro democracy social media posts.

‘Stop terrorizing CX staff,’ Hong Kong protesters tell airline - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

Cathay CEO Augustus Tang (鄧健榮), who replaced Rupert Hogg after his shock resignation this month, told staff there was “zero tolerance for illegal activities” or policy breaches.

“Right now, we are one of the most watched companies in Hong Kong and indeed the world,” Tang said in a company memo. “The way every single one of us acts, not only at work serving our customers, but also outside work — on social media and in everyday life — impacts how we are perceived as a company.”

I will take all that in with a grain of salt. Thank you.

 

[Buggbear]

Over the long term, I think Swire will sell CX to CA, only because of the political pressure from Beijing to Swire. They still have a lot of business in HKSAR and China, and there will be some kind of sweetener from Beijing to "assist" Swire selling.

Rightly or wrongly, HK is becoming more and more of a standard Chinese city. It is happening and it is not going back whether we like it or not. Article 23 will pass very quickly, as no one in HK would openly oppose it as they may end up infringing NSL laws.

And if they succumb to pressure, it is all because of money. So be it. HK is Chinese now and they can do want they want to integrate it into their society. And what is a standard Chinese city? Rightly or wrongly that is the CCP's prerogative. You may not think it is kosher and that is your opinion and I respect that.

 

[Buggbear]

I am really sick of people taking every opportunity to criticise other country's policies. They have a different system, sure, but why is ours better? There are 1.4 billion people, (give or take a few millions that will never be happy under whatever circumstances), that live happily under that system. AND, whatever legislation they implement, it is none of our business. I for one do not fully understand Article 23, not even close, but is it that much different to our National Security Laws? Do put the two legislation side by side and compare. Is it any harsher or insidious? Please do educate me. Don't just regurgitate what the mass media sprouts.
Are we all happy here under Labor, or Liberals for that matter? The right will always think the left are lack of common sense and vice versa. Live and let live.
I venture to say that our democratic system is actually on the verge of failing but that is my personal opinion.
You don't have to agree but we agree to disagree. However, you do not have the right to lecture me.

 

[tomlee1986]

I am really sick of people taking every opportunity to criticise other country's policies. They have a different system, sure, but why is ours better? There are 1.4 billion people, (give or take a few millions that will never be happy under whatever circumstances), that live happily under that system. AND, whatever legislation they implement, it is none of our business. I for one do not fully understand Article 23, not even close, but is it that much different to our National Security Laws? Do put the two legislation side by side and compare. Is it any harsher or insidious? Please do educate me. Don't just regurgitate what the mass media sprouts.
Are we all happy here under Labor, or Liberals for that matter? The right will always think the left are lack of common sense and vice versa. Live and let live.
I venture to say that our democratic system is actually on the verge of failing but that is my personal opinion.
You don't have to agree but we agree to disagree. However, you do not have the right to lecture me.

I will agree to completely disagree because we live in a democratic society- that’s all I will say!

 

[Buggbear]

I will agree to completely disagree because we live in a democratic society- that’s all I will say!

Would expect no less civilised response.

 

[jb747]

There were lots of good safety reasons to fly with Cathay. It had one of best qualified pilot groups of any airline. All past tense now. Nobody that I know is still there!

 

[tomlee1986]

There were lots of good safety reasons to fly with Cathay. It had one of best qualified pilot groups of any airline. All past tense now. Nobody that I know is still there!

The cx we knew is sadly not really in existence anymore

 

[GoldenTouchdown]

I’d be very very sad to see CX leave OW… but then I’d also be quite happy if CZ was joining. Would be amazing to have both airlines as members.

This alliance really needs a mainland airline, such a glaring gap amongst the big 3.

Have to say CZ has really stepped up their game and improved markedly from before, their J product is excellent value from my experience.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Don't just regurgitate what the mass media sprouts.

HK has fundamentally changed over the past 20-ish years. There should be not much doubt about that amongst anyone who has travelled there over time.

I do not necessarily agree with @tomlee1986 that the potential acquisition of CX is to stop HK citizens departing for the UK. However what I do believe is likely true is that it is pat of a broader, deliberate and concerted effort by the mainland Chinese government to remove a very significant international symbol of HK nationalism. It is part of a large and very obvious strategy.

One's own opinion of the "absorption" of HK in to mainland China can be separate to this. The history of the city has fascinated me for a long time, so I have been sad to see the quite unique nature of HK change and personally believe that it is not for the best. But others will have a different view.

 

[OATEK]

CX even now is not the airline it was. We last flew CX in 2019, and it was already a long way below the standard we had enjoyed in the previous decades. And with the new laws in HK we no longer wish to take the risk of even transiting through HKG as we did so often in the past. @jb747 points to the loss of well trained pilots which is also a concern. I suspect CX is losing brand value constantly, and this sort of speculation about a CA take-over will only increase that trend. It is sad, but we have moved on.

 

[tomlee1986]

CX even now is not the airline it was. We last flew CX in 2019, and it was already a long way below the standard we had enjoyed in the previous decades. And with the new laws in HK we no longer wish to take the risk of even transiting through HKG as we did so often in the past. @jb747 points to the loss of well trained pilots which is also a concern. I suspect CX is losing brand value constantly, and this sort of speculation about a CA take-over will only increase that trend. It is sad, but we have moved on.

I heard from media that this is what is happening in the pilot shortage according to SCMP HK

“The airline has 2,532 pilots, about 35 per cent fewer than before the pandemic, according to the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association. But the number of captains and first officers flying passengers stood at just 52 per cent of 2019’s levels, it said.”

Too few pilots, roster chaos: behind Cathay Pacific’s flight cancellations

While Cathay has pledged worst is over, pilots and analysts say carrier needs to tackle poor roster management and rebuild trust by boosting pay packages.

amp.scmp.com

 

[elanshin]

I heard from media that this is what is happening in the pilot shortage according to SCMP HK

“The airline has 2,532 pilots, about 35 per cent fewer than before the pandemic, according to the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association. But the number of captains and first officers flying passengers stood at just 52 per cent of 2019’s levels, it said.”

Too few pilots, roster chaos: behind Cathay Pacific’s flight cancellations

While Cathay has pledged worst is over, pilots and analysts say carrier needs to tackle poor roster management and rebuild trust by boosting pay packages.

amp.scmp.com

Yes this is well known that CX lost a lot of pilots and staff during covid (so did just about every airline though). However with CX being one of the last major airline to have restrictions lifted, the previous staff would have all been headhunted by other airlines that were also scrambling to rehire staff but recovered operations much earlier.

 

[tomlee1986]

Yes this is well known that CX lost a lot of pilots and staff during covid (so did just about every airline though). However with CX being one of the last major airline to have restrictions lifted, the previous staff would have all been headhunted by other airlines that were also scrambling to rehire staff but recovered operations much earlier.

I agree and after what they did to the staff just prior to the pandemic (the 2019 protests and the sacking after) - many chose not to return and I am not surprised by it

 

[drron]

However the loss of senior pilots, particularly expats, began long before 2019. I have talked to 2 senior captains previously with CX and they both left well before even 10 years ago and both were happy to take a"voluntary" retirement package as they could see the way things were going back then.

 

[cosi]

Very simple - the Chinese government wants 100% control of everything in HK including CX.

Sad for the residents of HK.

 

[jb747]

The old Cathay pilot group was one of the most professional out there. I have no trouble finding negative tales about almost every other group (the things you hear on the radio in the middle of the night), but Cathay was not a regular contributor. But, in late 2017 on one arrival to Dubai, we listened to an exchange between Dubai ATC and a Cathay 330 that killed CX in my mind. Not only did they arrive with a fuel level that would have been illegal given the conditions, they were also so reluctant to admit to the problem and treat it properly, that they eventually ended up landing in Dubai with HUNDREDs of kilos, not the thousands that they should have had. Dubai ATC declared an emergency on them. I cannot imagine how they managed it, given that they had to fly past Muscat.

 

[UP4014]

I disagree with that sentiment.

That may have been the case 10-15 years ago, however China as a whole has learnt the value of "foreign" brands.
They're not going to demolish a brand that still have good foreign prestige and perception easily unless it's a last resort now.

Just look at all the different foreign badged Chinese company owned whitegoods and cars on the market. They tried pushing their own brands into the world and it's taking them a long time to gain any significant market share. Where as buying a foreign brand or repurposing it has yielded much better results.

I think one example is Fisher & Pykel where they kept the branding and marketing despite it being fully owned subsidiary of Haier. They even states that as Haier they struggled to get into the market but as F&P they had better brand perception.

I graciously disagree.

Hong Kong itself was a great brand once in the not too distant past.