Almighty Mess with Booking

[Mattg]

@MickeyMad I wonder if the ACCC might be interested to hear how difficult you've found it to redeem your Qantas travel credits.

 

[MickeyMad]

Still no e-ticket, yet I received another email from Qantas advising that I need to provide APIS details for my daughter before the ticket can be issued. I called Qantas again. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ALL MY PHONE CALLS - I was told I was UNABLE to book a ticket for her without a current passport. When I made phone call NUMBER ONE I asked if I could book a ticket for her without a current passport and I was told I could. Naturally the first two phone calls are the ones I didn't get names from the consultants. So now, I am at the mercy of the government's speed to issue her passport, Qantas returning THIS credit to my account and the bank for holding another $10k+ for over week because this booking I currently have will cancel. I'm SO ANGRY and no one on the phone can help me. My anxiety about this experience is through the roof. If ANYONE knows anything that can help me with any of this, I'd be truly grateful. I've cried and lost enough sleep over this.

 

[craven morehead]

Perhaps, but a gentleman I spoke with said he was in Singapore when we were trying to organise a call back time (which never happened). I should have said Asia and been less specific.

I had a lady with an Indian accent last week tell me she was in the Melbourne Call Centre that's a new one for me

 

[antycbr]

At this point I’d be keeping the QF passes for something else (like a domestic flight) and booking another carrier.

 

[serfty]

I am not sure why, I was replying to someone saying

No worries, I was just pointing the return fares the OP was looking at may not have had a child discount.

With that your return example is more indicative.

 

[love_the_life]

At this point I’d be keeping the QF passes for something else (like a domestic flight) and booking another carrier.

But the rest of the travelling party have their tickets booked with no issues on QF so makes sense for the OP to stick with QF otherwise she will be flying with the daughter separately.

 

[MickeyMad]

At this point I’d be keeping the QF passes for something else (like a domestic flight) and booking another carrier.

I won't be taking any flights prior to this trip and they expire at the end of the year. Booking another carrier is absolutely on my radar. My husband and niece are likely just going to have to fly together. This is not the Christmas vacation journey I envisioned.

 

[RichardMEL]

So, this QF page for agents seems to say to me that passport information is NOT required for ticketing (but full APIS including passport/travel document numbers is required before flight departure).

For travel to, from or within the USA, you must provide your customer’s information as required by the US authorities under the Secure Flight and Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) programmes.
Qantas inhibits ticket issuance until the required information has been added. This applies to both initial ticket issuance and any subsequent reissues.

Mandatory information can be added to your customer's booking through Manage Booking or via your Technology Partner connected to the Qantas Distribution Platform and other technology systems. For bookings made within 72 hours of departure, this information must be added to the PNR immediately.

However....

Secure Flight Information​

• Secure flight information enables pre-screening of passengers travelling on flights to, from, within or over the USA.
• The following information must be added to your customer’s booking before the ticket can be issued:
  
  • Passenger full name exactly as it appears on the passenger's travel document
  • Date of birth
  • Gender
  • Redress Number^ (if available)

^ A redress number is a unique number that helps the TSA eliminate watch list misidentification. If a passenger has experienced screening difficulties or believes they have been mistakenly matched to a name on the watch list, they may apply to DHSOpens external site in a new window for a redress number.

Of course the example given for entering Secure Flight information includes a passport number, but technically I am not certain is is required before ticket is issued. At least initially.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policy-and-guidelines/book-and-service/travel-to-the-usa-requirements.html

I think the language is a little confusing and not entirely clear.

 

[MickeyMad]

So, this QF page for agents seems to say to me that passport information is NOT required for ticketing (but full APIS including passport/travel document numbers is required before flight departure).




However....



Of course the example given for entering Secure Flight information includes a passport number, but technically I am not certain is is required before ticket is issued. At least initially.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policy-and-guidelines/book-and-service/travel-to-the-usa-requirements.html

I think the language is a little confusing and not entirely clear.

Thanks for this. I can't get her passport issued any sooner than Wednesday, so it's in the hands of the travel/government/Qantas "gods" now...

 

[RichardMEL]

Thanks for this. I can't get her passport issued any sooner than Wednesday, so it's in the hands of the travel/government/Qantas "gods" now...

Good luck with that!! Hopefully the issues with delays with passports are past - though with the express fee they seem to come through fairly quick;ly from what I've heard).

When are you flying? Hopefully it's not super soon?

 

[MickeyMad]

Good luck with that!! Hopefully the issues with delays with passports are past - though with the express fee they seem to come through fairly quick;ly from what I've heard).

When are you flying? Hopefully it's not super soon?

Not until December, but the fares are increasing so fast! I started with $9k for 3 fares and now it's over $12k.

 

[Rich]

No worries, I was just pointing the return fares the OP was looking at may not have had a child discount.

On what basis? The OP stated "I still have a long list of issues (including the fact that I just paid adult pricing for my child, the ticket has been adjusted, but I'm sure my bank account wont be)" suggesting a cheaper fare for a child would have applied.
I showed you a discount return fare which was cheaper for under 12, I just did a few random searches and it was the same and every fare I have looked at in the last 10 years with QF that I can remember was the same.
So I think you need to back up your claim that "sale and discount return fares mainly have no discounts for children" because my experience is the complete opposite.

 

[serfty]

...
I showed you a discount return fare which was cheaper for under 12, I just did a few random searches and it was the same and every fare I have looked at in the last 10 years with QF that I can remember was the same. ...

Fair enough, on deeper digging it seems fares to the USA generally have child discounts available.

Fare Guides: Australia to North America

Children and Infants​

Discounts apply for infants (under 2 years) and children (2-11 years). Discounts are based on the fare type and the fare amount (excluding surcharges, fees and taxes) paid by the adult travelling and, for infants, whether they occupy a seat. Surcharges, fees and taxes that apply are then added. The exact total will be quoted once you have selected your flights.
Infants must be accompanied, with a maximum of one infant per adult travelling.
Note: If this fare is booked as part of the Companion Sale, children discounts do not apply. Infant discounts may not apply.

My experience from some time ago with such were different.

 

[Rich]

Fair enough, on deeper digging it seems fares to the USA generally have child discounts available.

Fare Guides: Australia to North America

My experience from some time ago with such were different.

It's not just US. But I do agree, I feel there was a time QF didn't offer this.

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm still confused (sorry). Is the OP's daughter 12 or under 12 (or will be 12+ when she flies in December.. if this ever gets ticketed)?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

So, this QF page for agents seems to say to me that passport information is NOT required for ticketing (but full APIS including passport/travel document numbers is required before flight departure).




However....



Of course the example given for entering Secure Flight information includes a passport number, but technically I am not certain is is required before ticket is issued. At least initially.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policy-and-guidelines/book-and-service/travel-to-the-usa-requirements.html

I think the language is a little confusing and not entirely clear.

Having flown a number of times to the US now, passport information isn't needed until you check in at the airport. That airlines insist on providing those details when your travel could be many months off is beyond me. DHS can figure out if you are on the no fly list (which would prevent you from flying into or over the US) with basic details like name and date of birth. Heck for flights to the US you don't even need to provide passport details at check-in if you have a WHTI compliant travel document like a Nexus card. At the same time, passports get lost, expired or are damaged. That your passport details could change between booking and check-in is possibility (indeed my "domestic" flight from Toronto to Los Angeles on WestJet was booked for travel when my current passport expires as I can only renew my passport at 1 passport office in Canada due to reasons and at no point was I asked to provide passport details).

-RooFlyer88

 

[RichardMEL]

Well I agree. CBP only requires APIS information a max of 96 hours out (from what I can read on their fact sheet) and minimum of after flight is "secured" which I assume is door close. I think 60min is more usual though.

However QF can be more restrictive if they like, and they do state, however ambigiously (so typical QF lol) that they won't ticket without the required information. Again, the issue is what they seem to define as required under "Secure flight" information - as even by the page I referenced above that doesn't appear to require PP info. so.....

but anyway this QF restriction has been a thing for years, as I had a ticket widtheld maybe 10 years ago for just this reason until I put the info in. So it's not new.

It does seem an oddly QF policy - I don't recall a specific requirement *for ticketing* from say UA or NZ when I've flown into the US on those carriers (obviously for check in).

 

[MickeyMad]

So, this QF page for agents seems to say to me that passport information is NOT required for ticketing (but full APIS including passport/travel document numbers is required before flight departure).




However....



Of course the example given for entering Secure Flight information includes a passport number, but technically I am not certain is is required before ticket is issued. At least initially.

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policy-and-guidelines/book-and-service/travel-to-the-usa-requirements.html

I think the language is a little confusing and not entirely clear.

Perhaps I'm just sick of my own story and things are just completely confusing me now, but does that information you provided state a passport NUMBER or just that the information must be the same as what is on her passport? Because I can provide all of that information, just not the passport number as yet. Though I guess that's how they validate it...

 

[RichardMEL]

Perhaps I'm just sick of my own story and things are just completely confusing me now, but does that information you provided state a passport NUMBER or just that the information must be the same as what is on her passport? Because I can provide all of that information, just not the passport number as yet. Though I guess that's how they validate it...

Fully understand how you must be feeling

but to me it is confusing too as I've noted already - so it's not just you!

It implies just full name and DOB should be required for Secure Flight Information and that PP# shouldn't be required.

And you've already experienced two different agents give differing answers.. which just adds to the confusion. I had hoped finding a actual source from QF as to their policy to clearly answer the question - but that page just doesn't fully - to me anyway.

I'm sorry

 

[RichardMEL]

I think it comes down to what QF define as "required information" for issuance of a ticket.

I feel it should just be the secure flight information (full name, DOB, gender, redress#-if there is one). QF seems to, in practice, require the full APIS (including PP#, Nationality etc) which strictly is not required by CBP until close in to flight.

This is probably one of those situations where a TA could set up the booking just fine without the APIS and ticket but QF has their own requirement.

I was just thinking about domestic intra-US bookings I've made. All they require for secure flight information is full name, DOB etc. No passport info (and of course not required for US citizens).

I think QF has a policy to mandate this information because everyone going to the US on a QF service WILL require a passport - either to depart AUS (or soon, NZ) to the US - either a US one or foreign national one.. and as such that's info that thy feel should be required for ticketing.

Yet they even state themselves:

For bookings made within 72 hours of departure, this information must be added to the PNR immediately.

so for agents they don't REQUIRE it for ticketing until the 72 hour mark.


so... frustrating!