Almighty Mess with Booking

[travellermad]

I'm interested to know if this was solved or if there are more people out there fighting with the Advanced Passenger Information (APIs) requirement for US. I had a ticket canceled with no notification from Qantas until I arrived at the airport for check-in. I tried to take Qantas to court on this but it was dismissed. I'm certainly sure there was a glitch back then (This was an international flight in October 2021 when travel was restarting) but I have no way to prove it!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I'm interested to know if this was solved or there are more people out there fighting with this requirement. I had a cancelled ticket with no notification until I arrived at the airport for check in. I tried to take Qantas to court on this but it was dismissed. I'm certainly sure there was a glitch back then (This was October 2021 when travel was restarting) but I have no way to prove it!

What sort of travel was it? Domestic? International? If international, what you should have been able to do was purchase a new ticket at the airport then pursue Qantas for damages under Montreal Convention 1999.

 

[Mwenenzi]

I'm interested to know if this was solved or if there are more people out there fighting with the APIs requirement for US. I had a ticket canceled with no notification from Qantas until I arrived at the airport for check-in. I tried to take Qantas to court on this but it was dismissed. I'm certainly sure there was a glitch back then (This was an international flight in October 2021 when travel was restarting) but I have no way to prove it!

More details needed.
Did you have an 081- eticket?
What has " APIs requirement for US" got to do with this?
Did you have the required documentation, visa/visa waiver, passport etc to travel to USA?

 

[jpp42]

What has " APIs requirement for US" got to do with this?

There's a few other threads on this, under certain circumstances if you do not supply APIS information in the correct timeframe for travel to the US, your ticket will either not be issued, or if already issued, will be cancelled. Normally Qantas sends out very explicit emails about this, but it sounds like the OP didn't get them for whatever reason.

The following information covers ALL of the requirements for travel to the USA which is worth a review for any passenger not familiar with the details: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/travel-info/travel-advice/travel-documents/usa-visa-requirements.html

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I don't think there is a requirement per se to provide API information before hand. In the worst case scenario, you can check in at the airport and supply that information. After all, if that wasn't possible it wouldn't be possible to buy last minute tickets to the US. At the same time, some people may be in a situation where even if they book in advance they don't have a passport to supply (i.e. the passport expired or has since become lost/damaged).

-RooFlyer88

 

[jpp42]

I don't think there is a requirement per se to provide API information before hand. In the worst case scenario, you can check in at the airport and supply that information. After all, if that wasn't possible it wouldn't be possible to buy last minute tickets to the US. At the same time, some people may be in a situation where even if they book in advance they don't have a passport to supply (i.e. the passport expired or has since become lost/damaged).

I stand by my statement, and please read up-thread for posts from February that explain this Qantas requirement also. I am not sure the exact cutoff between when flights can be ticketed without APIS and when they are required before ticketing (earlier in the thread it says 72 hours) but here is an example of an email from a last-minute USA ticket (purchased the night before the flights). I booked this via phone agent who warned me the tickets would not be issued until I followed the instructions in the email, which I did and only then did the E-ticket receipt arrive.

Qantas Secure Flight Information Request​

As you are travelling to, from, or within the United States soon, we'd like to remind you of the US Government requirements to provide your details before you depart.

What you need to do:

Step 1: Retrieve your booking

Step 2: Provide your Advance Passenger Information and Secure Flight Passenger Data before we can issue your tickets. This information is mandatory for travel to the US.

Step 3: Your tickets will be issued once this information has been received.

Step 4: Apply for an electronic authorisation known as ESTA at the US Department of Homeland Security ESTA website. You can do this at any time before you travel.

Find out more about requirements for travel to the USA.

Note that it very clearly states that tickets will not be issued without providing this.

Again, I know that with advance purchase tickets, the APIS requirement only comes in later, but apparently your tickets can be cancelled if it's not provided in a timely fashion. That's what the previous comment seems to be about.

 

[travellermad]

More details needed.
Did you have an 081- eticket?
What has " APIs requirement for US" got to do with this?
Did you have the required documentation, visa/visa waiver, passport etc to travel to USA?

I did not have an e-ticket number. But this is SUPER deceiving! What sort of proper user experience takes you to a final step where "your reservation is confirmed"... To then cancel it if you don't submit something that could be clearly inferred or asked during the reservation? We're talking about the date of birth canceling a ticket which is what Qantas said in court.

And yes, I did have all the docs, passport, visa, etc. Just happened that when I got to the airport I had my points refunded and had to pay a last-minute ticket to not lose my connection.

 

[jpp42]

I did not have an e-ticket number. But this is SUPER deceiving! What sort of proper user experience takes you to a final step where "your reservation is confirmed"... To then cancel it if you don't submit something that could be clearly inferred or asked during the reservation? We're talking about the date of birth canceling a ticket which is what Qantas said in court.

I am a little surprised this went all the way to "court" - can you provide more details about this? Was it a civil tribunal? What state? Can you share any (redacted) documents so that we understand the full details of what went on? How far in advance did you make the booking?

You mention the term "canceling a ticket" but I think we should be clear that if you never had an 081- e-ticket issued in the first place, there was in fact no ticket to cancel. This might seem like splitting hairs but it is actually an important distinction in the way airline e-tickets work. For legacy airlines like Qantas, your authority to to travel is not established until you both a confirmed reservation (the initial step) and a ticket (the second step). If Qantas failed to issue the e-ticket because the APIS requirements were not met, this is not at all the same thing as issuing it and then cancelling it later, which is what your post implied.

This is an interesting question about consumer law and liability here - I just did a dummy booking for a US flight (departing tomorrow), and the Qantas web site prompts you to review the Conditions of Carriage, but I cannot see anything in there about the secure passenger information requirement. I got all the way through to the payment page and it just says , "An e-ticket itinerary receipt will be sent to [my email] once your ticket(s) are issued." - with no more information about the requirement to submit APIS for this to be the case. I can see why you're angry at what occurred, if failure to submit APIS was indeed the reason your reservation was cancelled but it was not foreshadowed anywhere in the booking process, and for whatever reason you didn't get an email similar to the one I quoted above.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Note that it very clearly states that tickets will not be issued without providing this.

Yeah it's buried in step three of the process. If you are like me and receive a ton of emails it's very easy to miss this point. Having something that stands out like, Qantas Ticket Not Issued as the subject line would certainly get my attention!

I am a little surprised this went all the way to "court" - can you provide more details about this? Was it a civil tribunal? What state? Can you share any (redacted) documents so that we understand the full details of what went on? How far in advance did you make the booking?

Yeah the poster is very vague about what happened here and on what basis it was thrown out.

This is an interesting question about consumer law and liability here - I just did a dummy booking for a US flight (departing tomorrow), and the Qantas web site prompts you to review the Conditions of Carriage, but I cannot see anything in there about the secure passenger information requirement. I got all the way through to the payment page and it just says , "An e-ticket itinerary receipt will be sent to [my email] once your ticket(s) are issued." - with no more information about the requirement to submit APIS for this to be the case. I can see why you're angry at what occurred, if failure to submit APIS was indeed the reason your reservation was cancelled but it was not foreshadowed anywhere in the booking process, and for whatever reason you didn't get an email similar to the one I quoted above.

If you have never flown to the US and gone through the security theatre involved there, then yes this certainly could be seen as a surprise.

 

[travellermad]

I am a little surprised this went all the way to "court" - can you provide more details about this? Was it a civil tribunal? What state? Can you share any (redacted) documents so that we understand the full details of what went on? How far in advance did you make the booking?

You mention the term "canceling a ticket" but I think we should be clear that if you never had an 081- e-ticket issued in the first place, there was in fact no ticket to cancel. This might seem like splitting hairs but it is actually an important distinction in the way airline e-tickets work. For legacy airlines like Qantas, your authority to to travel is not established until you both a confirmed reservation (the initial step) and a ticket (the second step). If Qantas failed to issue the e-ticket because the APIS requirements were not met, this is not at all the same thing as issuing it and then cancelling it later, which is what your post implied.

This is an interesting question about consumer law and liability here - I just did a dummy booking for a US flight (departing tomorrow), and the Qantas web site prompts you to review the Conditions of Carriage, but I cannot see anything in there about the secure passenger information requirement. I got all the way through to the payment page and it just says , "An e-ticket itinerary receipt will be sent to [my email] once your ticket(s) are issued." - with no more information about the requirement to submit APIS for this to be the case. I can see why you're angry at what occurred, if failure to submit APIS was indeed the reason your reservation was cancelled but it was not foreshadowed anywhere in the booking process, and for whatever reason you didn't get an email similar to the one I quoted above.

Thanks for testing this. If you have a screenshot and can provide that last screen from the Qantas website, that will be awesome. This was in a civil tribunal. It was after a year of trying to get a refund from Qantas for that last-minute ticket I had to purchase for the same flight during check-in.

I don't want to get into many details for privacy concerns, but mostly... The ticket was purchased in October 2021, flying in December that year. I have a vague memory of entering the APIs but for some reason, I don't think they were submitted, and there's no way to know if you didn't know the e-ticket thing. I even remember calling Qantas during those days asking about this ticket and the customer service said "yes if you submit everything it might take a few days but looks like everything is ok" so I don't think they can check about the APIs.