Amex free flight upgrade?

[Plutonus]

A bit OT, but I don't see why either Virgin or AMEX would have a massive problem with this 'workaround'. Either way, AMEX isn't out of pocket and based on the credit shell value (or lack thereof), Virgin seems to get more money from you. I guess you get points for money you didn't spend though...

 

[AdMEL]

Its possibly seasonal, or depends on the sales that were available at the time of the booking? Plenty of sales right now so I can imagine the value of a ticket being possibly less (though contracted rates are less liable ot vary I would have thought).

Might be seasonal, but don't think it has anything to do with sales, since the saver fare was $405 each way when I booked, the same when i cancelled and dearer now. Flights were for next weekend.

I received in credit shell on my PER-MEL about half the cost of a flexi when I cancelled my freebie Amex ticket. As I recall, and the detail is in this thread, I had to add a bit more than half of the flexi value to my credit shell in new revenue to gain the flexi ticket.

That would be roughly what it would be for me if it was possible.

Hmm. This smells funny to me. Who has your credit shell? Amex or Virgin? I'd have thought that a credit value is a credit value and no other restrictions would easily be imposed. I also find it a bit suspicious because, in general, upselling is very much what both Amex and Virgin are open to doing. This is all new money for them and I'd have thought they'd be very keen.

There is a little bit too much information spelled out in this thread, and I've worried for a while that 'enhancement' of the bad kind is likely. Having said that, the scenario you've experienced above doesn't smell right, its too complex and against Amex and Virgins interests, so seems wrong. I'd keep trying. It may matter where the credit shell is kept. When I did it the credit was held by Virgin. If its now held by Amex then perhaps there are additional caveats. Please report back here when you find out the answer as there is a lot of interest I'm sure.

As was discussed earlier in this thread (or another), the credit appears to be with Amex - when I searched the virgin PNR after it was cancelled, it could not be found (though I'm not sure if Virgin credits can ever be found this way).

I'll try again and report back.

I must admit, I didn't leave a days gap between cancelling my ticket and rebooking the flexi. I first asked if J upgrades from Flex were still available, affirmative, then I asked what my cancelled Saver ticket would be worth, got the answer, then asked what the cost differential to me would be for booking a flexi, today, using my credit shell if I went ahead and cancelled the saver ... got the answer, then moved ahead and did the lot in one lump.

I rechecked and the gap was actually only one day between booking, cancelling and trying to rebook.

 

[AdMEL]

Called Amex again a couple of days ago .. Again told I can only book flights that my card allows ... Asked if I use credit to book one way .. Yes ... Asked if I could book flexi instead of saver ... This time advised I could, so booked one way flexi PER - MEL .. Initially advised I would have to pay $87 .. I queried this as I had previously been advised that $80 had been deducted from my credit and I would only have to actually pay $27 .. Upon checking, CSR agreed! So, I managed to get a one way flexi fare PER - MEL for $27 ... Not the best monetary value from my free flight, since it was only worth $319 and the original PER-MEL return fare I booked was worth over $800, but it will hopefully earn me some points and status credits and I upgraded it to business using points!

A couple if other observations ...

Virgin PNR changed when I rebooked the flight.

I forgot to ask Amex to add my velocity number to the new booking, so I rang back the next day and asked for it to be added (would be nice if they asked you, but this has never happened) .. Advised it was and would be visible immediately .. Checked my velocity account after I got off the phone and it wasn't there! Checked again a few min. later ... Still not there! Very annoying! Pulled up the booking using the PNR to see if it showed that way .. Didn't, so I clicked on the add velocity number tab, expecting a message advising it could not be added as Amex booked it, but to my surprise, it let me add it! Not sure if this was a coincidence or website glitch!

 

[Moopere]

I booked my Edge free flight today. PER-SYD, only a few days left in my Edge year so wanted to get in before it expired. I'll be cancelling tomorrow and using the credit for the flexi/business thing as per this thread. All pretty easy so far, as per my experience last time I did it with the free Velocity Plat flight. I did remember to specifically ask the Amex CSR if a cancel credit was held by them or by Virgin and was assured it was held by Virgin. If this is true, and there are several anecdotes on this thread to suggest that it is, I really doubt a Virgin CSR will care under what circumstances the credit shell is used.

Nevertheless, I won't get to test that theory in this case as I actually do have to travel to SYD. Found this snippet from the "Platinum Edge Credit Card Virgin Australia Saver Fare Rules" that I don't remember reading previously:

Changes:

Permitted at least 24 hours prior to scheduled departure
A. Permitted at an airline charge of up to AUD80.00 including GST per person for Domestic flights and
AUD100.00 for International flights. Not permitted to change and travel on the same day.
B. A service fee of AUD27.00 per person will be charged by American Express for all changes.
C. Fare may be used as a credit towards payment of an equal or higher ticket value provided conditions of the new
fare have been met. Any higher fare difference will be paid by card member in addition to the service and reissue
fees.

my bolding.

"Providing the conditions of the new fare have been met" ... hmm. .. interesting. Some fares maybe can't be booked with a credit?? Who knows, in any event, as we've surmised for some time here, the Saver to Flexi to Business game seems completely legitimate and recognised by the issuing parties.

Not sure if I will have to call Amex to cancel/upgrade or Virgin. I'll start with Virgin and see how things go. Hopefully I'll cop the $80 cancel fee, turn the credit around immediately, add some points and off we go. Will report back tomorrow.

 

[Plutonus]

In the interest of respecting those who have said less is more in updating this thread, just reporting I followed what has been said in the past and it worked fine for me today.

 

[Moopere]

Mmm, interesting experience.

I'm glad I had an easier experience of the Amex Free Flight upgrade to Business earlier in the year, as today I hit mostly new sounding CSR's at Virgin. Couple of pointers for myself next time I try this:

- Don't give out too much information on the plan. The plan is above board and is fine, its recognised in the Amex/Virgin free flight T&C, but I think this road is seldom used and its extremely easy to confuse the CSR's as to what you want to do. take it one step and one phone call at a time.

- Ring Amex, book your free flight

- Ring Amex again and cancel the flight you booked above. You have to cancel your Amex Saver flight in order to gain the credit shell you will need later. The credit shell is _definitely_ held by Virgin, not by Amex. Amex are the only ones who can cancel your free flight booking. Don't tell them what you are up to as it will confuse them. All they need to know is that you need to cancel and are happy to cop the $80 cancel fee. Then ask for the credit shell. When I told my rep a bit too much she got confused and told me I'd have to re-book a saver fare with Amex to use the credit. When I pushed on this, and advice from supervision was obtained, it turned out that Virgin holds the credit

- Amex don't need to be involved again once you cancel your Saver "free" flight. Just make sure you get the credit shell reference number before hanging up the phone.

- Call Velocity to see if there is any "Q" class availability for the flights you want to take.

- Call the Virgin GCC to book a flexi ticket on the flights you have checked business upgrade availability on above. Make sure you have about an hour to do all this. Don't leave a long time between checking availability and actually upgrading your flexi to business class as you might miss out.

- After you have your PNR for your flexi ticket, and are reasonably happy that there is still business availability, call velocity and ask for the upgrade. This bit is trivially easy.

- Bing! You now have transformed your Amex free saver flight into a points upgraded business class flight... enjoy.


Really, the emphasis is on one phone call and one leg of the upgrade path. If you ring virgin and hit them with all this process at once they will get terrifically confused and lead you down all kinds of dark and mysterious paths of semi truth. They are not trying to stop you from fulfilling a legitimate upgrade, but it seems to me they are seldom asked to do this and its easily muddled.

My first Virgin rep denied that "Q" class (the Flexi to business upgrade class) even exists. We know that it does because many of us have been booked on Q class bookings previously. There is a strong reticence to quote "Q" class availability by Velocity as the availability can change minute to minute. In the end, after pressing on this issue, I got a quote of availability at this minute, but no guarantee there would be any availability by the time I booked, which is completely fair in my mind.

I also spent some time trying to weedle out the link between Q class upgrade availability and J and H class. We know that J is full business and that H is award business ... usually a subset of J, but as expertflyer doesn't report Q class availability its hard to know where Q draws its stock from. I wasn't given a direct answer, despite me asking the same question in slightly different ways to ensure I was getting through a language barrier, however, I was assured that if J class availability existed at all, a Flexi to business upgrade would be honoured. this sounds like Q = J > H to me and may be useful when thinking about this stuff in the future.

 

[wafliron]

I'm about to embark on this adventure myself (using the free flight from my Platinum Reserve CC) - thank to Moopere and everyone else for the detailed instructions.

That being said, I have a couple of questions re extracting maximum "value" from the credit shell - I'm sure the following have been covered previously but I'm hoping someone won't mind answering to save me trawling back through 100+ posts:

1) Does the initial Saver fare need to originate from your "home port" - i.e. the capital city you live in / closest to? So, for me, living in Melbourne, does my flight need to originate in MEL? Or can I book anything in order to seek out maximum value.

2) Taking into account the answer to #1, what route(s) generally offer the best value (highest value credit shell)? I'm thinking MEL/SYD-PER most likely? Anything else to consider?

3) I'm assuming the value of the credit shell is not simply determined by route, but also by loads on the specific flight you're booking - i.e. the more expensive a Saver fare is on the flight you choose (when booked with cash), the more value is left in the credit shell? Assuming so, any tips for finding the "highest value" flight?

4) What fare bucket(s) do these free flights book into, so I can use ExpertFlyer to find possible contenders before I ring DJ?

Thanks...

 

[Moopere]

1) Does the initial Saver fare need to originate from your "home port" - i.e. the capital city you live in / closest to? So, for me, living in Melbourne, does my flight need to originate in MEL? Or can I book anything in order to seek out maximum value.

I cannot see any reason why you would have to book from your home port. I don't specifically remember reading anything related to this in the T&C.

2) Taking into account the answer to #1, what route(s) generally offer the best value (highest value credit shell)? I'm thinking MEL/SYD-PER most likely?

Anecdotal evidence a few pages back is suggesting thats trying to game the system in this way is not as easy as it first probably appears. Have a look at the discussion on the credit shell received for an east coast city to DPS.

Anything else to consider?

Yes, in my view anyway. Whilst the idea of upgrading the Amex based free flights in the manner suggested by this thread seems to be fine with everyone, Amex, Velocity and Virgin, I'd have a care before openly discussing ways to 'game' the credit shell aspect of the idea. PM's might be better, or, if possible, glean useful inferences from existing posts in the thread.

We all benefit from an open discussion, I certainly have, across the whole forum, not just this thread, but anything obviously 'gamey' won't ultimately benefit us all I don't think.

3) I'm assuming the value of the credit shell is not simply determined by route, but also by loads on the specific flight you're booking - i.e. the more expensive a Saver fare is on the flight you choose (when booked with cash), the more value is left in the credit shell? Assuming so, any tips for finding the "highest value" flight?

I'm not sure there is a directly obvious link as I mention in the answer to #2 above. I've found Virgin pretty helpful when I've asked questions on the phone previously.

4) What fare bucket(s) do these free flights book into, so I can use ExpertFlyer to find possible contenders before I ring DJ?

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....booking-codes-for-dj-35665-14.html#post664941

Standard Codes that get used in interesting ways:

R = Discount Economy. Amex uses a sub allocation of R class for its credit card free flights. R class is used for flights booked less than 21 days ahead. R needs to be available to book a free flight in the 21 day window, however, simply having R class availability doesn't guarantee that Amex's allocation hasn't already been used up.

T, A, U, X = Discount Economy, probably in revenue order (T = highest cost, X lowest cost). These 4 classes are used by Amex to book credit card based free flights when the date of travel is 21 days or more in the future. As with R above, availability in these classes doesn't guarantee Amex can book you as there is a limited Amex allocation.

Upgrades from Flexi to Business are "Q" class. EF doesn't list Q class. My conversation with Velocity today is leaning me towards believing that Q=J for availability. Therefore, if J is showing availability on EF, probably (do you own research please!) there will be Flexi upgrade to Business availability.

 

[lovestotravel]

I thought you could book flights to NZ as well

Too lazy to check at the moment

A nice MEL-ZQN during July/August would be good for a larger credit

 

[Chicken]

I thought you could book flights to NZ as well

Yes, on the Reserve & charge, not Edge.

 

[wafliron]

I cannot see any reason why you would have to book from your home port. I don't specifically remember reading anything related to this in the T&C.

<snip>

Moopere, I just realised I never replied and thanked you for your answers here - thanks for your help, I appreciate it.

 

[Jama]

There was some discussion about the fare class booked by Amex and that it is different for bookings more than 21days out to those less than 21 days out. Does anyone know the significance of this in real life ? Should we aim to book to match either of these periods, do either present pros or cons ?

 

[Moopere]

There was some discussion about the fare class booked by Amex and that it is different for bookings more than 21days out to those less than 21 days out. Does anyone know the significance of this in real life ? Should we aim to book to match either of these periods, do either present pros or cons ?

THe only significance for me was that it provided a way to check probability of gaining seats on Expertflyer. If I was <21d out and EF said no seats in R then chances start to get slim of an Amex free flight becoming available. Having said that, I'd probably still ring and check, but it helps for the high level planning.

 

[Trinz]

With the new upgrades to the Virgin booking system (Travel Bank), has anyone tried to see if the upgrade process is easier?

 

[Moopere]

I just booked an Amex "free" Saver flight and am informed that Amex now uses booking codes E/N/Q all of which can be viewed from Expertflyer (post Sabre). Haven't gone ahead and upgraded this one yet as I have no time today, but I'll report back here when I do.

 

[Trinz]

Does it have an implications for the upgrade process?

 

[Moopere]

Does it have an implications for the upgrade process?

Don't know the answer yet, though my inclination is to think that it won't change anything. I got pretty much the same spiel as last time. Booking can be cancelled and credit held for a cancellation fee.

 

[quick_dry]

I was just on to AMEX to give this a try, the CSR said I would have to book using AMEX if it was cancelled (and that cancellation and rebooking was a $107 fee, $87 for a change). I got gunshy and didn't book.

Has anyone booked and cancelled recently (Is this a change from the initial situation post-Sabre?)? From the way this thread had gone, I had thought the credit might show up in the Travel Bank and was held with Virgin not AMEX

*EDIt: nevermind: I missed Moopere's description of almost word for word what I was told, and that the CSR was incorrect.

*edit 2: I did the cancellation, and received an email that:
"The ticket has been held in credit until 07 March 2014 by which date all travel must be completed"
"this credit can only be utilised by-rebooking with American Express"

Have I made a mistake in the process?

 

[quokka77]

This may have been answered previously, if so apologies- are the amex flights eligible for 's before 30 June?

 

[quokka77]

... Eligible for SC's I mean....