AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[Evan]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Went into Retravision last week, found about $2000 worth of items I wanted, I noticed the AMEX sticker on the front door as I walked in so I was happy.

The printed sign near the register said they take Amex
The sticker near the register said they take Amex

Came to the end of the sale, they asked for payment and rudely refused Amex. They noticed I had a Visa and lots of cash in my wallet and insisted I pay for the goods, I declined.

They insisted I had to pay for the good as they had already rang them through as a sale.

I laughed and walked out

<..>

Did as i would have on principal ! What idiots, if they don't accpet it them pull down the signs saying the do. I still can't believe that any of ther electrical places pay much different for Visa/MC as they do Amex. I am sure they should be able to negotiate reasonable rates given the amount of $$ they must put through.
E

 

[rhjames]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

The other technique - especially for electrical/computer retailers - is that a discount is offered for cold hard cash, only a little bit for credit cards (Visa and MC), and nothing for finance or Amex.

If I'm purchasing at item when there's a chance of a discount, I try to have cash with me. It still has good bargaining power. I still believe in the old saying - look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. There's two ways to accumulate money - make it, or don't waste it. I've done a bit of both, now comfortably retired, and rarely using Amex.

 

[Nutcase]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

3% max or 30c.

They'd be making TWICE that on the Metcard fee or they simply would not bother selling them.

An idiot merchant.

Thought that I would chime in here with this discussion. Most merchants are paying around 1% for Visa/MC depending on which bank their facility is with. Amex is around 2.5% so there really isn't much in it. Unfortunately, many merchants don't see the value in accepting cards - to them its just another cost. What they don't understand is that customers do spend a lot more when they can use a card - especially an AMEX card and subsequently they can recoup their costs if they are smart. Unfortunately, many are not that smart.

Merchants will use arguments like "they can use EFTPOS or pay by cheque. Yeah right! EFTPOS has a daily limit of $1000 and cheques bounce - not smart business.

There are two other dimensions to this discussion.

1) Processing Cash costs money
2) Many Merchants are gouging customers when it comes to surcharging

The answer is to shop around and only deal with reputable merchants who don't surcharge. I will shop elsewhere if Im asked to pay a surcharge or if games start being played when it comes to making a purchase. It only takes a couple of lost sales to make surcharging look like a bad idea.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

looking at it another way, I doubt that there are many people who have AX who do not also have a VI or MC. If someone wants to use AX which may cost the retailer more than VI/MC, why shouldnt the customer pay the extra.

Not as if there is a benefit to the retailer is there

Dave

 

[Evan]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

looking at it another way, I doubt that there are many people who have AX who do not also have a VI or MC. If someone wants to use AX which may cost the retailer more than VI/MC, why shouldnt the customer pay the extra.

Not as if there is a benefit to the retailer is there

Dave

Thats true but where there is a discount for Amex i actively seek those places. Sure in Australia not often a discount but my platinum has saved me a bundle, for example going to a club, 3 people x $25 entry is free + 10% off bottle etc... all adds up.

Should the customer pay ? well thats a good question, i guess the retailer has to make the value judgment, do they get same or better value from AX customer or does it really cost them. Even so 1% is not what people complain about, its the 3%-6% that is more than liley well over the cost of providing service.

E

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Good show - that is exactly what you should have done.

Having used to work at Harvey Norman, if no money was exchanged, no sale was recorded (i.e. invoice was not finalised). We didn't have too many invoices go unfinalised, but if it does happen naturally we were annoyed but what can you do - you cannot coerce the customer otherwise.

It did get a little sticky when considering things like paying via finance companies or renting, but usually they would handle the situation on their ends.

I think in circumspect many retailers would prefer to charge anywhere between 3 and 6% for Amex as a direct recovery for their costs. From my experience, most that accept Amex do not charge a surcharge and those that charge universally for credit cards do not ordinarily have a dedicated Amex surcharge (and this charge can range from 1 to 5%). However, for others which have a dedicated Amex surcharge, I've seen this between 3 and 6%; in the case of other credit cards accepted at the same retailer (except for Diners), the surcharge ranges between 0 and 3%.

The other technique - especially for electrical/computer retailers - is that a discount is offered for cold hard cash, only a little bit for credit cards (Visa and MC), and nothing for finance or Amex.

Well he did put it through the register as "EFTPOS" as soon as he saw me pull a card out and the receipt printed, bit silly in case my EFTPOS declined or something.

Having to reverse the sale would be annoying.

The Manager/Owner came over (some older grumpy man) and told me off for not paying for the goods. Heck I felt like I was stealing but left the shop with nothing more than "I will NEVER shop there again as they don't take AMEX"

The fact the signs were left up two AMEX blue stickers and their own "in house rules" about payment types etc etc show how poorly the shop is run.

The highest AMEX surcharge is at my local comptuer shop which is about 5% from memory, VI/MC is about 3% as well.

The Audi dealership is charging me 2.75% as that is APPARENTLY their Amex surcharge. Normally they don't charge for payments up to $5,000 but as I want to pay for the whole car on Amex we agreed that I would cover the surcharge.

I am sure a major car dealership and Audi, could hassle Amex and get their surcharge down to 1.5% or lower which is what Amex do charge some merchants now!

Either way, the boni points promotion has kept me only shopping at places that accept Amex. I even ditch my local coffee shop now and get a Coles Express "coffee" or wait til I get to my non-local coffee shop closer to work and pay with my Amex

It's all about the points :mrgreen:

 

[Evan]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

<..>
I am sure a major car dealership and Audi, could hassle Amex and get their surcharge down to 1.5% or lower which is what Amex do charge some merchants now!
<..>
It's all about the points :mrgreen:

I have a friend who owns a car place and they negotiate with Visa/MC a set rate for a large transaction, the ring them and get a special price for it rather than a %.
No idea if Amex you could do the same thing.

E

 

[Nutcase]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Well he did put it through the register as "EFTPOS" as soon as he saw me pull a card out and the receipt printed, bit silly in case my EFTPOS declined or something.

Having to reverse the sale would be annoying.

The Manager/Owner came over (some older grumpy man) and told me off for not paying for the goods. Heck I felt like I was stealing but left the shop with nothing more than "I will NEVER shop there again as they don't take AMEX"

The fact the signs were left up two AMEX blue stickers and their own "in house rules" about payment types etc etc show how poorly the shop is run.

The highest AMEX surcharge is at my local comptuer shop which is about 5% from memory, VI/MC is about 3% as well.

The Audi dealership is charging me 2.75% as that is APPARENTLY their Amex surcharge. Normally they don't charge for payments up to $5,000 but as I want to pay for the whole car on Amex we agreed that I would cover the surcharge.

I am sure a major car dealership and Audi, could hassle Amex and get their surcharge down to 1.5% or lower which is what Amex do charge some merchants now!

Either way, the boni points promotion has kept me only shopping at places that accept Amex. I even ditch my local coffee shop now and get a Coles Express "coffee" or wait til I get to my non-local coffee shop closer to work and pay with my Amex

It's all about the points :mrgreen:

I like your style with the points accrual and merchants please note: He is not the only one!

Amex wont negotiate too much on rates and 2.75% is about right for car dealers. The main reason for the higher rates is somewhat historical. When Amex didnt issue credit cards it meant that they only had 2 revenue streams:

• Merchant Fees
• Annual card fees
• And to a MUCH lesser degree - LDC and others like foreign currency charges

Now that they issue credit cards, there is a third (revolving credit facility) but its an odd situation as Platinum Charge and Centurion car holders spend the most, and all AMEX make out of them is the annual fee and maybe the occasional penalty fee hence the higher merchant rates. (nothwithstanding the MSF they make from the merchant)

Merchants are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want high spending AMEX cardholders, but wont pay the price.

With your computer shop - I would be shopping elsewhere. The only reason that their MSF (merchant service fee) is so high is if there is a high degree of fraud or they are gauging you.

Your Retravision guy clearly understands that the AMEX sticker on the door is a drawcard but isn't clever enough to either have a pricing model that supports a 2.5% MSF or is too gutless to surcharge.

My advice is to get the best price and then take it David Jones or another reputable retailer. Most reputable merchants with any idea about their brand wont surcharge:

• Apple
• David Jones
• Myer
• RM Williams
• TAG
• Hugo Boss
• Coles
• Woolworths
• Floorshiem

Naturally this doesnt include airlines, thats another story

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I have a friend who owns a car place and they negotiate with Visa/MC a set rate for a large transaction, the ring them and get a special price for it rather than a %.
No idea if Amex you could do the same thing.

E

Why thank you I will ask them during the week

 

[NYCguy]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

They insisted I had to pay for the good as they had already rang them through as a sale.

Funny, funny stuff... There aren't many occasions when I will vent my spleen at retail staff with a five-words-or-less slap-down, but this is one of them.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Funny, funny stuff... There aren't many occasions when I will vent my spleen at retail staff with a five-words-or-less slap-down, but this is one of them.

Yep I found it pretty damn funny, especially when the Manager/Owner came across and started barking at me to pay via the cash or Visa that they had seen in my wallet, as the sale has been put through. Heck the goods were still sitting in stock out the back in the warehouse/storage area!

Best part was I got the products elsewhere cheaper and from a much nicer salesperson, lets say she was about 30 years older and was lovely to deal with.

3000 Amex points as well most importantly.

 

[Zorro]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Why thank you I will ask them during the week

Feedback on this would be appreciated - I have an upcoming new car purchase as well.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Feedback on this would be appreciated - I have an upcoming new car purchase as well.

The hardest part was getting them to accept Amex for more than the $5,000 that they normally accept as a deposit.

They fairly easily went up to $11,000, but then the "cashier/finance pusher" questioned the sales person on the larger amount. The sales person said it was approved for $11,000, but also added the rest of the car would be going on Amex, as I agreed to pay the merchant fee.

If I can get the 2.75% extra down to a fixed amount it will be great, I am heading down there by Saturday at the latest :mrgreen:

 

[RB]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Doesn't seem to be much compassion for small business. Down the track when there is less competition in more sectors the chickens may come home to roost. Guess we are hearing mainly from employees/contractors here, not small business people with shopfronts.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I actually have a small business and we don't accept Amex, however the industry in which we operate is unique and none of our competitors accept Amex.

If one of them does, then we will accept it with a surcharge, that will be the breaking point as the potential for a lost sale is there.

We currently surcharge 1.5 for VI/MC

As per my experience with Retravision, I was amazed at the rudeness of the sales person/Manager that I dare ask to pay with Amex. I even rang another major electrical store nearby and they didn't accept it either.

I actually used the Customer Service - American Express Australia link to find a Retravision that accepted Amex. I used that directory ALOT during the boni points promotion

 

[Chicken]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I bought a dish washer 6 months ago, and paid by AmEx.

I found the best price for the model I want (went to many places like Bing Lee Hardly Normal RetraVision Domaine NRMA buying service).

The best price was from the Good Guys, they accepted the price I got, and was willing to charge my AmEx with no surcharge. Clive Anthony was only willing to accept the price if I pay by Visa / MasterCard.

So I paid the deposit to the Good Guys, then they call me later that day to tell me that there is a 2 week wait. I can either wait, or take the deposit back.

I proceeded to call Clive Anthony, and he said he has it in stock. I told him he has 2 options:
1 - Take that amount they matched from my AmEx.
2 - I wait for my dish washer from the Bad Guys.

He then go "Well, I guess I will have to do it then". So I paid for my dishwasher with my AmEx, no surcharge. Just to show you have to push them sometimes.

Also on a side note, I called AmEx for my work, and they offered to drop our merchant rate from 2.7% to 1.95%; but there is a catch: we must not charge customers more that what we would charge them if they pay by Visa / MasterCard.

 

[Flashback]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I bought a dish washer 6 months ago, and paid by AmEx.

I found the best price for the model I want (went to many places like Bing Lee Hardly Normal RetraVision Domaine NRMA buying service).

The best price was from the Good Guys, they accepted the price I got, and was willing to charge my AmEx with no surcharge. Clive Anthony was only willing to accept the price if I pay by Visa / MasterCard.

So I paid the deposit to the Good Guys, then they call me later that day to tell me that there is a 2 week wait. I can either wait, or take the deposit back.

I proceeded to call Clive Anthony, and he said he has it in stock. I told him he has 2 options:
1 - Take that amount they matched from my AmEx.
2 - I wait for my dish washer from the Bad Guys.

He then go "Well, I guess I will have to do it then". So I paid for my dishwasher with my AmEx, no surcharge. Just to show you have to push them sometimes.

Also on a side note, I called AmEx for my work, and they offered to drop our merchant rate from 2.7% to 1.95%; but there is a catch: we must not charge customers more that what we would charge them if they pay by Visa / MasterCard.

Under the TPA can they legally dictate to you what you can and charge your customers in terms of a surcharge? I didn't think they could...

 

[oz_mark]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Under the TPA can they legally dictate to you what you can and charge your customers in terms of a surcharge? I didn't think they could...

Never mind the TPA, but under the rules that allow sucharging, the RBA left it up to the acquirers (the banks/Amex) to enforce limitations on how much a merchant can surcharge. So, I would say, under the framework that the RBA devised, it is the entirely appropriate mechanism for Amex to use.

If the Amex merchant rate is the same as the Visa/MC rate, then it seems a reasonable restriction for Amex to impose.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

He then go "Well, I guess I will have to do it then". So I paid for my dishwasher with my AmEx, no surcharge. Just to show you have to push them sometimes.

Also on a side note, I called AmEx for my work, and they offered to drop our merchant rate from 2.7% to 1.95%; but there is a catch: we must not charge customers more that what we would charge them if they pay by Visa / MasterCard.

Depends - Some places just do not accept Amex at all, they simply cannot process it

Others can process it, but don't want to

Yes Amex will reduce fees down to 1.95% pretty easily now, as you have proved, and yes, the condition is you don't slug them extra vs VI/MC.

 

[edman]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Yep I found it pretty damn funny, especially when the Manager/Owner came across and started barking at me to pay via the cash or Visa that they had seen in my wallet, as the sale has been put through. Heck the goods were still sitting in stock out the back in the warehouse/storage area!

Best part was I got the products elsewhere cheaper and from a much nicer salesperson, lets say she was about 30 years older and was lovely to deal with.

3000 Amex points as well most importantly.

Why were they willing to accept cash if they had already put you down as Eftpos and it was too much hassle to reverse?!?!

They must be doing well in this climate (though their customer service would indicate not) to knock back a sale, considering how so many others will do anything to get a a sale.

The other element here is that beside the points, I like the insurance on Amex purchaes. It has come in handy twice before, although now my Citibank is a Platinum I must admit I haven't done a comparision. Was always another good reason to put big purchases on Amex.