An invitation from Lesley Grant

[Dmac6345]

Not to mention, from 01 Oct, even QF P1/WP flyers booking and flying solely EK, without a QF flight number will not get access to the QF F lounge.
Further protecting revenues.

Princess beat me to it!

 

[medhead]

Status is irrelevant for people who always fly J/F but there were many that used MASA to get/retain status while the majority of their flights were in paid Y. Even if someone have many QF points they may not want to use them every time they fly. Now they will have to buy more expensive tickets or fly more with QF/OW because they won't be able to retain status using classic awards. I suppose that was the reason many were upset when MASA was cancelled.

I have two responds.

1) how many?

2) And they paid qantas more money for the masa in doing so. They certainly don't need to spend more on paid fares, when they'll get all the same benefits from cheaper classic awards.

Anyway, I think it's a mistake to think people want masa back. Most people around here is the valuable marketing benefit that could be derived from that product. I think most around here are just stunned by the baby with bath water approach.

 

[nlagalle]

As a QF FF, booking directly with EK F SYD to AKL and then flying with EK, would have some advantages, for booking and flying with EK, but QF does not like this, so they won't give SCs for booking and flying EK without a QF flight code. Cunning and sly, of course.

Many flights can be booked on a QF codeshare for the same price so you still get the points and SC's. just have to be mindful when booking.. also i'll wager most casual flyers will only be interested in points and not SC's so it makes little difference to them.

 

[nlagalle]

Not to mention, from 01 Oct, even QF P1/WP flyers booking and flying solely EK, without a QF flight number will not get access to the QF F lounge.
Further protecting revenues.

Wrong.. Status recognition is still the same: Gold get access to the J lounge and WP and above to the F lounge.. as Princess Fiona said, it only affects Qantas Club members.

 

[boomy]

I have two responds.

1) how many?

2) And they paid qantas more money for the masa in doing so. They certainly don't need to spend more on paid fares, when they'll get all the same benefits from cheaper classic awards.

1) I don't know exactly how many out of all QFF members, I don't have access to the numbers. There were many I talked to as well as many unhappy members here on AFF.
2) They won't get the same benefits - no SCs earn on classic awards burn.

 

[dfcatch]

If MASA was such a cash cow and also encouraged loyalty then why QF cancelled it and why no other airline is introducing something similar to it's members?
These are genuine questions, I'm not trying to be confronting

I never said it was a cash cow.

My point was simply that the assumption that removing MASAs was going to result in that flyer paying for their J ticket (or higher class of ASA) is flawed.

I agree with Medhead - it was the baby and bath water issue.

 

[dfcatch]

What you're saying is half true. MASAs did take away revenue seats - 3 scenarios:
1) Customer redeems for JASA whereas they would have likely otherwise either purchased cash economy ticket (which has then cost QF rev by not receiving any cash and by taking a U seat out of inventory for someone else to burn points on).

Not really.... Purchased a cash Red eDeal for $, or redeemed a JASA for xxK points plus $$$.

Clearly more revenue to QF from the redemption in many cases.

2) Partner redemptions suffer. If QFF members redeem for seats on QF its one less seat that an AA, BA, CX etc passenger can redeem on. QF receives cash from the partner airline for this seat (ie: new revenue) whereas its internal accounting (ie: old money). In this sense makes more financial sense to have the redemption made by someone under another program who may ALSO potentially connect onto a revenue ticket if to/from Aus.

Classic redemption causes the same issue. Again, no opportunity cost if cabin not full. YM dictates that next J seat sold may have been in a higher revenue bucket as a result of the redemption taking place.
Swings and roundabouts but unless cabin is full - argument doesn't hold.

3) Pure SC chasing on flight that otherwise would never be taken - yes this depends on the flight/loads but it does take away revenue if the cabin is full (and QF could have burned another members points for an upgrade). The only situation this helps QF is if there was no offer for that same seat by a partner airline/other FF member and it was going to be empty anyway - which is RARE on intl flights. The only way QFF would be benefiting here is from the small% of savvy frequent flyers who had the ability to earn points and essentially swap them for status credits. Such a small small% in the overall scheme of things.

Your hypothetical is just that...

I think your conclusion is wrong - for all the reasons in my original post.

But here's another one - cabin shouldn't be full statistically. If it was to be (and therefore creating the opportunity cost that you claim), then YM got it wrong by releasing the U seat in the first place.

But I take your point that a U seat sold to AAnother program is more profitable than one redeemed internally.

Now, someone with high CC points earn is most likely NOT crediting direct sweeping to QFF. All the high end cards and private banking cards allow for choice of where points are sent to. If you're doing serious CC points and in the small% that redeem for premium intl cabins then status likely means jack. Why bother with status when you're always in biz/first anyway? There's simply no point.

I would be interested to see stats on how many points banks buy from krisflyer/airpoints etc.. That number is likely growing year on year and would be an accurate reflection of the market share QFF could capture but is failing to and IMO is what QFF success/bonuses should be based upon.

agreed - but now you're doing their anti loyalty, pro spending marketing job for them.

I'm all for QFF being profitable, but I'd like to see Qantas Loyalty actually promoting some loyalty. That would maximize the Group profits.

 

[medhead]

1) I don't know exactly how many out of all QFF members, I don't have access to the numbers. There were many I talked to as well as many unhappy members here on AFF.
2) They won't get the same benefits - no SCs earn on classic awards burn.

1) so just some amount that you've just assumed
2) they do get the same benefits, lounge and nice seat

Anyway, I'm sure people are rolling their eyes at me getting started on this. I'll end with the observation that if I was Qantas i'd want people who are earning status credits to be paying me more than the cost of a classic award (masa) than to be paying less than the cost of a classic award.

 

[boomy]

1) so just some amount that you've just assumed
2) they do get the same benefits, lounge and nice seat

1) I did not assume any amount. I was taking from personal experience.
2) Not true. Points and SCs are also benefits. Can't get them on classic awards.

 

[medhead]

1) I did not assume any amount. I was taking from personal experience.
2) Not true. Points and SCs are also benefits. Can't get them on classic awards.

Many is an unquantifiable number. Again how many? Out of 10 million.
Premium awards give the same benefits while flying as status. As has been mentioned a few times, status is irrelevant to anyone always flying in premium cabins.

I note you don't seem to acknowledge the goodness of getting more than the cost of a classic award from a masa, than giving out status on an award for less than the cost of a classic award.

 

[eminere]

That's not true.
The changes for lounge access only affect Qantas Club members.

Some people will just keep shooting from the hip without first verifying the facts.

 

[JohnK]

Just got the Sydney invite this morning. Interested in going but don't think I'll know a soul there!

Don't let that stop you from attending.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

agreed - but now you're doing their anti loyalty, pro spending marketing job for them.

I'm all for QFF being profitable, but I'd like to see Qantas Loyalty actually promoting some loyalty. That would maximize the Group profits.

QFF could be ****ing insanely profitable if they got rid of this 2005 mentality and the program changes were obviously a gamble which I'm betting are already costing them lost revenues.

 

[Deleted member]

I have two responds.

1) how many?

2) And they paid qantas more money for the masa in doing so. They certainly don't need to spend more on paid fares, when they'll get all the same benefits from cheaper classic awards.

Anyway, I think it's a mistake to think people want masa back. Most people around here is the valuable marketing benefit that could be derived from that product. I think most around here are just stunned by the baby with bath water approach.

I want the masa (JASA / FASA online access) back,
It works for me because I have no problem earning points ( from non flying) but I don't fly often enough to make WP , but with JASA's I was able to get most of my target, meaning the small amount of domestic flights were enough to get me there.
I'm not sure but it strikes me that the high frequency FIFO ( and the like) pax, who were making WP on Y flying, would be a much higher frequency end user of the lounge etc, where I was a significantly lower frequency user and as such not the same drain on resources. I do wonder if removing the more expensive ( than classic) ASA's wasn't just sour grapes.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Last year there was one in Adelaide and probably Perth.

And Auckland

 

[boomy]

Many is an unquantifiable number. Again how many? Out of 10 million.

It would be a very small number out of 10 million but I'm not representing QFF here, only my personal experiences and many, or most opinions I read and heard first hand were different to mine on this subject. IMO MASA was a mistake because offering shortcuts to status in return to members voluntarily wearing the "golden handcuffs" is not something a serious airline like QF should do. Instead QF should focus on the vast majority of their members and create more routes, better product and service with competitive prices to match. The ultimate goal should be that each and every member who is making a booking, either once a week or once a year, will end up flying QF because the overall product is as good or even better then the competition.
Give people a great product and professional service, that's how you create loyalty and secure long term profitability. Offering an average product with shortcut to status means people will leave as soon as their shiny new cards expire.

 

[medhead]

I want the masa (JASA / FASA online access) back,
It works for me because I have no problem earning points ( from non flying) but I don't fly often enough to make WP , but with JASA's I was able to get most of my target, meaning the small amount of domestic flights were enough to get me there.
I'm not sure but it strikes me that the high frequency FIFO ( and the like) pax, who were making WP on Y flying, would be a much higher frequency end user of the lounge etc, where I was a significantly lower frequency user and as such not the same drain on resources. I do wonder if removing the more expensive ( than classic) ASA's wasn't just sour grapes.

I guess the question, to test my theory, is whether you would now use your points for classic business awards? Did you need the status?

 

[OzEire]

Anyone going to the CBR event ?

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

I guess the question, to test my theory, is whether you would now use your points for classic business awards? Did you need the status?

I intend to use what's left of my points for just that (and F classic where it exists) - it will be much cheaper. And now that you take a hit on partners where QF doesn't fly, it's time to move away from the Simpler and Fairer™ program.

If I was going to buy a J seat to replace a redemption as has been suggested, it certainly wouldn't be with QF.

 

[AnotherFlyer]

If I was going to buy a J seat to replace a redemption as has been suggested, it certainly wouldn't be with QF.

agree. QF's much advertised "Biggest Early Bird Sale", still QF sale fares (as an example) 25-30% more Aus-LHR than Cathay. MUCH prefer Cathay if un-restrained by QF "loyalty".