An Open Letter to my fellow AFF members - External Influence on this website

[drron]

Ah but @QF WP you are the one nearly 20 years ago got me to transfer my loyalties from QF to AA and I thank you for it. Remember your crusade to transfer points to AA. I did and 4-5 years later I made LTP with AA.

 

[SCM]

I think it's better to throw everything out there and let there be a contest of ideas and opinions. The best ones will win, the blatantly false will be called out - everyone else is free to make up their own mind as to who they want to believe.

I'm not that fond of Qantas, but if the narrative about Qantas being bad is so fragile, that it takes some people from Qantas PR team (the implication here?) posting positive things to turn it around, then I guess it mustn't be so bad to begin with.

Additionally, I can fully comprehend people supporting Qantas - as a traditionally local airline, they have decades of brand and consumer loyalty built up, we want them to succeed not fail, many of us remember the great experiences we have had with Qantas, perhaps even as children - and would love for them to return to that era. Many people might have invested a lifetime of flights into that airline to obtain status, maybe even permanent status - so they have a sunk cost mentality (right or wrong) - but it doesn't make their perspective incorrect, necessarily.

 

[wandering_fred]

Given the current state of air fares ex Australia, I would hope we would have a large support group of people asking that people fly their favorite Australian airline to the closest SE Asian airport (in economy) and then find a suitable partner airline to transfer to their final destination.
That statement may also be treated as a question/query.... And I will accept flights from eastern Australia to the other local islands (NZ) as being exceptional circumstances.

My (lack of a) bank account balance has a serious (and undue) influence on my choice of airlines when wandering
Fred

 

[I love to travel]

Happy to (sensibly) weigh in on this. Normal commercial practice is to declare actual or perceived conflicts of interest. Therefore I would hope that anyone who posts would do so.

AFF is great and has enriched my travelling life immensely. Any behaviour that genuinely enhances the knowledge skills and resources of our community is a great thing.

Let's try and keep AFF as great as it can be.

 

[Gold Member]

Thank you all for your insights and feedback. I've taken them all on board, and while I don't agree with some of them, I respect your right to have an opinion and question my opinion - that's one of the very reasons that makes this forum so enjoyable.

In my original post I chose to use language and frame the inference/accusation to invite thought, discussion and awareness. It's clear that we don't all view this matter in the same way, and it does appear that I'm in the minority here. That's OK with me, and I'm OK with receiving constructive negative feedback, but please don't make it personal.

Before I respond to individual posts, let me repost a small part of my original post that was removed - "In the meantime, I want to recognise the efforts of our Moderators who voluntarily step up to tackle these time consuming and patience testing duties. I’m grateful for all of their efforts because without them, we wouldn’t have AFF." I'm not sure how a sincere thank you to the mods can be misconstrued as a violation of ToS but anyway.

I'm also not a Qantas "Hater" despite my rhetoric. I am LTG with Qantas so I have a somewhat vested interest to ensure their success. I've been subject to the highs and lows of Qantas over 30 years like many others. I'm simply trying to balance out the grossly positive representation of Qantas adopted by 2-3 Users that seem to have no interest in anything other than presenting Qantas in the best possible light and shutting down any naysayers by way of manipulation and mistruths.

In the meantime, I'll respond to some posts where I think some clarity will help.

 

[Gold Member]

Your logic seems to be...

1. Some AFF users believe and trust Qantas and its press releases, public pronouncements, and "representation". Therefore...
2. Those same AFF users have been "charged with influencing ... AFF".

Not sure I see the logic there.

Qantas and QFF have many, many millions of users in Australia. Despite the recent (well-deserved) bad publicity, many of those users/customers/members have been genuinely helped -- in some cases, even rescued! -- by Qantas and its staff, many of whom are competent and, yes, caring.

Could it not be that in the best possible way, those people want to support Qantas not because they're being incentivised or paid to, but because of their past positive experiences for which they're grateful?

I'm just suggesting that you be careful before accusing those users of anything deceptive or underhand until you've ruled out the other possibilities.

Absolutely. Despite recent experiences with Qantas, I'd suggest most Qantas Flyers would speak positively about them over the long term. I'm not blind to the obvious.

I may be entirely wrong about my claims and assertions. And of course I cannot substantiate any proof given the anonymity of public web forums. But I feel strongly enough about this matter to take a stand by way of my OP.

 

[Gold Member]

Everything you've said can also be said with the word "Qantas" replaced by "Virgin Australia".

I have seen nothing to suggest that what you've stated is happening.

Not in my humble opinion, but to each their own.

There are hundreds of threads on AFF which aren't related to this matter, but a very small handful that are relevant where this type of behaviour is rife. Its not surprising that many AFF members will not even be slightly aware of what I'm referring to. But the very fact that this inciting and accusatory style of post was allowed to remain published says a lot.

 

[Gold Member]

As you can see from my status to the left, I fly Virgin 95% of the time, but nevertheless over the past couple of years I've had reason on occasion to feel frustrated and angry with Qantas.

These forums are about dialogue. Many of the AFF members on these forums are intelligent, experienced and highly knowledgeable.

I rarely agree with the Qantas apologists, but they make these forums better by contributing their perspectives, opinions and knowledge. If the arguments are strong, they'll hold up. If they're not, they'll be shot down.

I'd rather hear those views than have them censored by Mods. To dismiss an argument, or to write off a member, simply because they support Qantas is not dialogue -- it's a cheap shot.

You're missing the point. I've made it abundantly clear that I encourage all opinions whether right or wrong on any topic. This was never in doubt.

Despite their best intentions, even the mods must abide by the AFF ToS which allow posts that are relevant and on-topic, but are morally wrong and are lined with ulterior motives. There's no cheap shot being taken - to the contrary, we should welcome those who stand up for what they believe is wrong. Do you?

 

[Gold Member]

I think that's quite a strong claim to make. If you spend enough time on internet forums and/or social media, you'll know plenty of people get quite argumentative and defensive about plenty of corporations, including phone brands, gaming companies, and yes, even airlines. This doesn't mean they're all paid shills.

Agreed. I'm not taking sides here. But the nature of the language and behaviour of the users in question suggest otherwise.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2024

We can all learn patience and the ability to allow a person to have an opinion even if it’s diametrically opposed to our own. Well that’s my fervent hope for our community, lest we become like Airwhiners.

Unsure if you're having a stab, WP?

 

[Gold Member]

Why does it matter if people like Qantas ? Not trying to be belligerent at all just curious . Similar to KPC I have one person on ignore cause they are a moron , however perhaps I read different posts/forums as I see more anti sentiment than positive actually for Qantas
In regards to people who are perceived as "company representatives" can't they just be ex employees who happen to know things ?
I know when a certain government department comes up and someone has issues I may comment if I know the answer because I was a specialist for them . I am long since retired but I still read the appropriate Acts and Guides to the Act (old habits die hard )

I have no problem with people liking, loving or hating Qantas. I go through phases of each at different stages just like most other people here. And yes, of course current and ex-employees are prevalent with their own take on things which is a great insight into the inner workings warts and all. I'm cognisant of all these facts, but my point about incessantly protecting and manipulating the truth to make Qantas appear all rosy just doesn't sit right with me. Some of us on AFF (and many many more who are not members but still read the forums) don't have this awareness.

 

[Gold Member]

I don’t think that would happen anywhere.

That said, I see no issue with a member who works for Qantas but posts on a personal account, defending them as they see fit. If you think it’s less personal and more commercial, report and ignore and then you don’t have the issue. But AFF has had members who have had personal accounts but also quite senior jobs in many fields for many years. Can you imagine if anyone connected to the airline industry wasn’t allowed to post because they could be biased? Wouldn’t make for much of an interesting forum.

Well said Sam.

Equally, could you imagine if everyone on this forum never voiced opposition for something that they strongly believe in? We're lucky enough to live in a democratic society with a bunch of Mods on AFF that are reasonable and evidently support our rights to question and stand up for what we believe.

I cannot comment on the report/ignore function because this invokes prior comms held with Mods which will be deemed as a violation of ToS and the comment will be deleted.

 

[OZDUCK]

Given the current state of air fares ex Australia, I would hope we would have a large support group of people asking that people fly their favorite Australian airline to the closest SE Asian airport (in economy) and then find a suitable partner airline to transfer to their final destination.
That statement may also be treated as a question/query.... And I will accept flights from eastern Australia to the other local islands (NZ) as being exceptional circumstances.

My (lack of a) bank account balance has a serious (and undue) influence on my choice of airlines when wandering
Fred

Pretty much what we did for our German Christmas Trip last November - although we didn't use a 'partner' airline. They were perfectly fine for the Per - Sin leg in exit row seats in economy. We could then fly J for the rest of the trip at half the cost.

 

[QF WP]

Agreed. I'm not taking sides here. But the nature of the language and behaviour of the users in question suggest otherwise.

Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2024

Unsure if you're having a stab, WP?

Not at all, my post was a general sweeping statement to all AFF members.

 

[RSVKanga]

In recent times, some of you may have noted that there are a small number of users here on AFF that unapologetically support and endorse Qantas.

Qantas is the Commonwealth-designated national carrier of Australia. A 103-year old Australian icon with an extraordinary legacy when it comes to safety, innovation and service. They have had ups and downs over the past century but nothing has undermined this overall positive legacy, and they have a bright future ahead of them. It’s very normal for citizens of a country to demonstrate patriotism through supporting the national carrier, and Australia is no different. It’s also very normal to support Australian Government protectionism of vulnerable Australian businesses like Qantas in a volatile and competitive market. If you’re against that then I reckon that’s more of a personal problem - it wouldn’t be ideal for a Singaporean to chronically hate on SQ, or an Israeli to chronically hate on ELAL, or a Canadian to chronically hate on AC - the same applies to Australians and Qantas.

 

[RSVKanga]

motivations of some Players here on AFF that seemingly get away with it and will continue to do so in broad daylight

That wording suggests you’re talking about an organised crime syndicate. Calm down and respect reality, and the right for Australians to support their national carrier. That rhetoric is not only a slap in the face to the wonderful country we live in, but also your fellow Australians who have a right to be proud of Qantas.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think GM if you are able to identify, or suspect a post may be written with ulterior motives, the poster has failed in their efforts.

True ‘deep influence’ should be unrecognisable, and look, for all intents and purposes, like a completely genuine post, raising no suspicions.

If you are able to identify, or suspect a post, you will be able to give it the weight it deserves, and ignore it.

If others aren’t able to identify a suspect post the next question is whether the outcomes of anyone acting on that could be detrimental, whatever that might mean in terms of cost or time, etc. If ‘yes’, we all have the ability to correct or put forward an alternative view.

 

[Cynicor]

the same applies to Australians and Qantas

I want what this dude is smoking. Qantas are terrible, overpriced, barely offer service, have a monopoly over the business sector and they know it.
Bring on regulation like the EU regs and watch them finally offer service.

 

[jase05]

but also your fellow Australians who have a right to be proud of Qantas.

I too was once proud of QF but not anymore.
They are now pretty average airline IMO.

And yes I’ll declare my interests by saying that even though I don’t work for QF I work for a large partner of them and they help put a lot of coin into my coffers so I want them to return to how they once were.

 

[mel-world]

I want what this dude is smoking. Qantas are terrible, overpriced, barely offer service, have a monopoly over the business sector and they know it.
Bring on regulation like the EU regs and watch them finally offer service.

And....Internationally, for most of the time, they are not even Australia's national airline. With such a focus on Sydney operations, they don't serve the rest of us very well at all. Transiting via SYD, especially at the moment, is becoming a nightmare.

Between MEL (which will have a bigger population than SYD in a few years) and SIN, QF only flies twice a day in older generation aircraft with both return journeys being overnight within a few hours of each other. And a chance of being bounced to JQ if there are problems. No thanks.

 

[p--and--t]

Well if anything, this thread has been honey to the QF haters with over the top exaggerated remarks IMHO not based on reality.

I am a non-statused passenger on all airlines and largely airline agnostic and look for fares and itineraries that suit my needs rather than allegiances. I will admit I have travelled a bit more on OW than *A due to the points accrued through supermarkets and other CC transactions but will travel on any airline that suits my proposed itinerary. I travel OS more often than domestically.

I'd be the first to admit, QF is certainly not what it once was, but I have been on a number of the airlines raved over in these forums in glowing terms and found the service very variable. i.e. my flight (hard and soft product) QF J to HKG was streets ahead of my sector in nearly all aspects on QR J from HKG to DOH.

Of the 7-8 sectors I have had in (mainly Y) on EK in pre-covid trips to Europe middle east and Africa, I would rate EK below similar sectors flown on QF.

Domestically only a small sample in the last 2 years, JQ was far superior to my experiences on VA in Y. There wasn't a big difference between JQ and QF except for inclusions.