An Open Letter to my fellow AFF members - External Influence on this website

[justinbrett]

Well that yankie statement is purely an 'or / either' statement. Not both.

The same oath is used in Australia and the UK (link)- but he quoted it wrong.

It's the truth, the whole truth AND nothing but the truth.

In any case it's a moot argument, we are not a hive mind, multiple facts can be true simultaneously, especially when most of what is discussed is subjective.

 

[Human]

In any case it's a moot argument, we are not a hive mind, multiple facts can be true simultaneously, especially when most of what is discussed is subjective.

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that this discussion would veer into the topic of modernist vs postmodernist epistemologies!

 

[Happy Dude]

Not entirely true. In some cultures there can be several truths. For instance in the United States it could be the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth.

Speaking specifically of QF, I think anyone who has flown sufficiently with them will have both good and bad stories. Some completely within control of the airline whilst others aren't. And this by the way isn't unique to QF. Fly any airline long enough and you'll have both experiences be it SQ, British Airways, BA (Emirates), UA, DL, LH, etc. What matters is the average experience and so long as it is a net positive your loyalty with them probably makes sense.

-RooFlyer88

You've missed the point of my post and got the truth part wrong too.

I was making the point that one does not have to be a QF regular to qualify for posting on QF threads. But I'm 0 for 2 on good experiences on QF. How much more of my doubt should they benefit from before I get a good or even an average one? I'm sure you'll appreciate my desire to avoid repeating such experiences, even if it is at the cost of bringing up my average and negating my qualifications to post on QF topics.

 

[p--and--t]

This probably belongs in the Humour thread but I cant help myself

 

[Michenny]

Ill stick to Flying SIA or any other airline except Qantas.

 

[RSVKanga]

Well, it has been almost four months since this prejudiced, provocative, un-Australian and unsubstantiated thread was posted, and it seems like the motive of it has been achieved.

Compared to December and January, the users here who support QF don't express their positive views about the national carrier anymore - despite still being active on this platform, due to the fear that they'd be coerced and shut down as a paid shill and have their 'reputation' ruined by the powerful minority of users who themselves possibly play a role in the online influence campaigns of airlines such as QR and VA. These users are typically long-term 'credible' AFF members who might have been approached by these QF rivals in the past year or two in order to combine indirect influence and advertising with personal credibility and reputation. There are also countless posts and comments in favour of these adversary airlines that have been increasingly oversaturating this site since the thread was first posted.

All I can say to the unaffiliated and silenced members is wake up, and please don't be afraid to express your views.

 

[jase05]

Well, it has been almost four months since this prejudiced, provocative, un-Australian and unsubstantiated thread was posted, and it seems like the motive of it has been achieved.

Compared to December and January, the users here who support QF don't express their positive views about the national carrier anymore - despite still being active on this platform, due to the fear that they'd be coerced and shut down as a paid shill and have their 'reputation' ruined by the powerful minority of users who themselves possibly play a role in the online influence campaigns of airlines such as QR and VA. These users are typically long-term 'credible' AFF members who might have been approached by these QF rivals in the past year or two in order to combine indirect influence and advertising with personal credibility and reputation. There are also countless posts and comments in favour of these adversary airlines that have been increasingly oversaturating this site since the thread was first posted.

All I can say to the unaffiliated and silenced members is wake up, and please don't be afraid to express your views.

You are surely extracting the urine.
The majority of posters on here are impartial and will give credit where it’s due and whack airlines when they deserve it.
QF has dropped the ball and perform poorly in many areas so they deserve criticism just as any other airline would.
Being Australian should see them immune from any criticism and perhaps if they lifted their game they would get a lot more positive feedback

 

[RooFlyer]

You are surely extracting the urine.

Has to be. Well, you'd hope so.

But it’s good value if you imagine Sam Kekovich reading it for an Aussie lamb ad.

Akky

 

[straitman]

Well, it has been almost four months since this prejudiced, provocative, un-Australian and unsubstantiated thread was posted, and it seems like the motive of it has been achieved.

I feel you could rewrite this as:

Well, it has been almost four months since this opinionated, somewhat provocative, unsubstantiated thread was posted, and it seems like it got people thinking and discussing. All be it briefly!

I don’t for one second think it was prejudiced, un-Australian or achieved any particular motive.

 

[RSVKanga]

I don’t for one second think it was prejudiced, un-Australian or achieved any particular motive.

Yes it is prejudiced and un-Australian, if it isn’t, why is Qantas the only airline repeatedly named in the OP post? The term “some airlines” could have been a more appropriate and sane way of conveying the message. The word “Qantas” could easily be replaced with “Virgin Australia” or “Qatar Airways” because the content of the OP post applies equally to those airlines as well, but it’s clear the intent of the post was to demonise any positive light about QF hence the use of the term “Qantas”.

The motive has been successfully achieved. Take a look at the post histories of users who used to make pro-QF comments on here. All active on AFF, but silenced on supporting QF due to the fear this post has installed into them. They don’t want to be dismissed as a paid shill when AFF’s routine anti-QF/pro-QR vultures swoop in on their comments.

 

[RooFlyer]

12 COMMON Birds Found in Qatar! (2024)

Learn the common types of BIRDS found in Qatar and how to identify them. How many of these species have YOU seen?

birdwatchinghq.com

Doves, larks, pigeons, kestrals, egrets and sparrows. No vultures, sorry.

Perhaps anti QF/pro-QR gannets might fit the bill? ( Pardon the pun )

 

[Forg]

Yes it is prejudiced and un-Australian, if it isn’t, why is Qantas the only airline repeatedly named in the OP post? The term “some airlines” could have been a more appropriate and sane way of conveying the message. The word “Qantas” could easily be replaced with “Virgin Australia” or “Qatar Airways” because the content of the OP post applies equally to those airlines as well, but it’s clear the intent of the post was to demonise any positive light about QF hence the use of the term “Qantas”.

From the point-of-view of someone living in the country where Qantas is the flag-carrying airline, the degradation of Qantas from the customer POV over the last couple of decades is a lot more visible than … I dunno, St Petersburg Airways.

Changes in the stuff you’ve got regular contact with are a lot more obvious than something you’ve only used once or not at all.

Virgin Oz is still a low-cost carrier, at least to my mind at least. It’s harder for them to disappoint, even if they’ve possibly repositioned themselves a bit (my flight experiences are severely lacking compared to most ‘round here, but about 10-12 years ago we had projects in the Melbourne and The ‘Bane & I was organising my own flights … I think Virgin was still blue at the time, and they were about half the cost of QF at the time - yet to me Virgin was better due to me preferring the snacks you paid for plus them not being afraid to use the rear doors … but last few times I flew anywhere QF was cheaper).

First time I went OS to anywhere not with my parents was to Europe for 7 weeks, and I still remember the longing for home the flying kangaroo evoked when we dropped a friend off at FRA partway through. And I think the disappointment with QF stems from that; it’s not quite the same, but I think has similarities to, being ripped-off by a friend as opposed to being ripped-off by a random on Gumtree.

Could there have been some sort of concerted effort by industry shills to sell QF competitors? I guess it’s vaguely possible, look at how middle-eastern & Russian state actors stirred-up social media after the recent Bondi stabbings solely for the pretty random purpose of societal destabilisation, so I guess it proves there are those who’ll spend money on “potential marketing” even if there’s no proven result. I personally think it unlikely in this case though.

 

[Daver6]

Changes in the stuff you’ve got regular contact with are a lot more obvious than something you’ve only used once or not at all.

This is a really good point. For me, QF constantly markets itself as this amazing premium service airline and fails to deliver. Their say to do ratio is really poor.

 

[Warks]

I missed this thread at the time. Popcorn sales would have been affected.

 

[elanshin]

I asked a very interesting question a few months ago about the perception of Qantas in UK that fly to Aus and basically it was said that QF was fine but BA degrading and going to cough town.

Similarly when I talk to my Canadian friends they basically say QF is fine as an airline but AC is going bad.

It's a lot of what we're familiar with and hear about in our local environments.

I will say that objectively Qantas isnt as good as it was in the past, but they're not necessarily unflyable. I'd also like to think that many Aussies would like QF to go back to being an airline that was absolutely top tier and we didn't have such a hard time dealing with things.

Just because we're criticising (or praising) QF doesn't necessarily mean there is an agenda. I personally always think criticism where criticism is due and praise when they do things right.

It's a very first world problem that we can compare QF, SQ, QR. EK etc and which airline we want to fly with. Younger me would've only flown scoot and Jetstar or the other LCCs. In fact some of my friends are still like this today.

 

[Forg]

^ There’s also the fact that when flying QF or SG you’re not giving money to an awful regime like your are when flying QR or EK. I’m full guilty of doing it, have done it before & will do it again ‘cos I’m selfish, but you’re still aware that each Etihad ticket you buy costs a little piece of your soul …

 

[RSVKanga]

^ There’s also the fact that when flying QF or SG you’re not giving money to an awful regime like your are when flying QR or EK. I’m full guilty of doing it, have done it before & will do it again ‘cos I’m selfish, but you’re still aware that each Etihad ticket you buy costs a little piece of your soul …

I don’t think broad-based ethical issues surrounding state owners should detract support for state-owned carriers. All countries have controversies. However all the people crying about the QF Chairman’s lounge while supporting extra QR flights should be aware that senior Hamas leaders might have exclusive access to the Al Safwa First Lounge regardless of their status (due to the close Qatar-Hamas relationship), but that doesn’t get talked about for some unknown reason.

The issue with state-owned middle eastern airlines is that they have access to infinite oil funds which allow them to run dozens and dozens of loss-making routes and fly completely empty flights (eg MEL-ADL) and are very well capable of using these resources to bully, run down and crush competitors that don’t have access to these resources (eg QF) through flooding the market with excessive seats and dirt cheap prices until all the competition is erased. Supply and demand do not apply to airlines like QR. It’s why their activities need to be regulated by governments to prevent catastrophic consequences for local businesses, which is what was done last year in regards to QR in Australia. However, It’s a good thing when ME carriers have longstanding partnerships with Australian carriers such as QF-EK.