An Open Letter to my fellow AFF members - External Influence on this website

[burmans]

Personally I regard both people who post ALL positive or ALL negative with some suspicion, the real world is usually more nuanced than that.

 

[wandering_fred]

My bank account has an ALL NEGATIVE opinion of 5 star (and in most locales 4 star) hotels....
And lack of money does affect my wandering
Fred

 

[kangarooflyer88]

To add some commentary on this thread. I have no doubts that AFF, FT and other online travel forums have been infiltrated by company reps. Even if they don't sign up for an account or post something on the forum you can bet your bottom dollar that some analyst somewhere is mining these sites for insights into consumer behaviour to better target their products/services. To the extent that there are company representatives trying to counter the narrative, they have every right to. I think it is also helpful to get an understanding of how they see the problem and correct their narrative based on actual accounts and reporting. Indeed, ol' Blackjack* looked silly when he suggested that travellers were not match fit to fly Qantas post COVID.

*ol' Blackjack is one of my nicknames for Former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce. This nickname comes from the fact that his initials: AJ represent two cards you need in the card game blackjack to score a Blackjack and win the hand.

Personally I regard both people who post ALL positive or ALL negative with some suspicion, the real world is usually more nuanced than that.

As someone who stays at Accor hotels regularly I take exception to those who think you cannot have ALL positive stays or ALL negative stays at their hotels. Certainly the thread How Does Accor Treat You as an Elite Guest has stories of both ALL experiences.

 

[tdimdad]

All posts are probably true, as both good and bad experiences happen on all airlines every day. Every flight is different, every crew is different.

And every traveller is different. Even our moods and preferences vary between days and over time.

We might sitting right next to each other on a flight and get the very same treatment & service from the crew. I might be pleased compared to my earlier experiences while your expectations may be different and your experience perhaps even contrary. We'd report back here on the same flight using rather different tones.

Every story we hear here is a point in time as experienced by that particular person. No more, no less. Some will be of delight, some disappointment, and most somewhere in between. Give it the weight you want in relation to all the other stories you hear here and elsewhere.

 

[sjk]

And every traveller is different.

Subtly.

My original theory was that the OP mixed up 1/4 and 4/1.

 

[burmans]

And every traveller is different. Even our moods and preferences vary between days and over time.

We might sitting right next to each other on a flight and get the very same treatment & service from the crew. I might be pleased compared to my earlier experiences while your expectations may be different and your experience perhaps even contrary. We'd report back here on the same flight using rather different tones.

Every story we hear here is a point in time as experienced by that particular person. No more, no less. Some will be of delight, some disappointment, and most somewhere in between. Give it the weight you want in relation to all the other stories you hear here and elsewhere.

Each story is different indeed, which is why I am suspicious of experiences which are always positive (or negative for that matter). I can certainly believe in individual experiences that are great (or terrible) but we are a forum of FREQUENT flyers, suggestions that all experiences are great or terrible seems somewhat unlikely.

 

[justinbrett]

Each story is different indeed, which is why I am suspicious of experiences which are always positive (or negative for that matter). I can certainly believe in individual experiences that are great (or terrible) but we are a forum of FREQUENT flyers, suggestions that all experiences are great or terrible seems somewhat unlikely.

Just look at the number of people who constantly post in the QF forums who never, or at best rarely fly QF. Most are quite gleeful that they don't give QF a dollar of their money or that they haven't flown QF since the 70s or something. Yet they have something to say on every. single. post.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The silent majority of Australia still holds Qantas in a positive manner. I’m a Bronze FF and I’ve called Qantas many times recently and I’ve never experienced the so called “long wait” or “incompetent service” that many people who claim to be “long time gold and platinum loyalists” complain about online.

…

That’s quite plausible!

As a bronze you aren’t flying as much as golds or platinums, and your needs from the contact centre may not be as often, or as complex as those of higher status.

Once you start needing solutions to some pretty simple things but the ‘computer says no’ it can be incredibly frustrating, or lead to undue anxiety. For example when tickets aren’t reissued in time and you lose your itinerary, or you can see award seats available but the phone agents can’t.

On board the product is pretty good, although the ‘new’ premium economy could probably do with a few more inches of legroom!

It’s just a shame that the pre-flight experience for some of the more complex itineraries can’t be as positive every time!

 

[Ade]

Just finished reading the whole thread and there are a lot of thoughts out there. IMHO, any experience we face WRT airlines/hotels, service industry in general is always relative & subjective to many factors. I say, service industry because I still work in a service industry, albeit in a casual capacity.

Relative because as humans we tend to compare things. For instance, the bread roll was warmed up last time I flew with XX, not this time, so I was not able to spread the butter properly - absolutely pathetic service, why can't the crew warm the bread roll before service or leave the ice cream to thaw before dessert service? Or, the classic - the serving of fresh chilli alongside squid in the F lounge - MEL does it, but SYD doesn't (or the other way around, can't remember). Does it mean MEL does it better than SYD? May be, may be not ... IDK, depends on the person who consumed the dish and what they thought of it ...

Subjective because as many posters here rightly (IMHO, again) pointed out - the service received/consumed largely depends on the mood a person is in. You have a bad day at work, traffic on the way to the airport, app doesn't work, so had to queue for check-in, then flights delayed - after all this, if you received a cold/solid bread roll in J (after paying all that $$$), you may feel angry/frustrated/let down ... and chances are it's not simply because that the bread roll was cold, it is possible perhaps all the bad experiences of the day catching & culminating with the cold bread roll being that "straw that broke the camel's back" ... may be I'm exaggerating? I'm not sure ... it is subjective

For me, personally, if I get a decent service - less waiting time for check-in, less queue at security, shadow-stuck (if lucky and I have been very lucky in 2023), decent GT or a decent PN (I can picture @Cruiser Elite rolling his eyes ), decent vego meal, decent wait time for bags to arrive - I'm happy and that is all I expect out of the trip flying any airline. In 2023, I flew QF, VA, JQ, ZL, TG, 6E, UL, MH, SQ and all I wanted was to get to my destination within a reasonable time and with reasonable comfort (and I fly Y majorly, Dom/Int)

All of the above is long winded way of saying what I mentioned at the beginning of the post - all experiences (IMHO) we face is a reflection of what we endured before or after experiencing that experience and what that experience made us experience ...

If I offended anyone, I do apologise

 

[Ade]

I’m a Bronze FF and I’ve called Qantas many times recently and I’ve never experienced the so called “long wait”

I think I understand what you mean. A good mate of mine, was NB beginning of Jan 2024 called in and the call was answered within a minute, albeit MNL. So that was a great experience for him as there was no *long wait*.

“incompetent service” that many people who claim to be “long time gold and platinum loyalists” complain about online.

The same mate, on the same call wanted to change the travel date on his J ticket, but the, I apologise for the word *incompetent* agent at MNL, could not do a simple date change and kept arguing that his tickets T&C prevents any date changes (lol). The call was on speaker and I was also listening in, but the agent just won't do a date change and we had to HUCA.

Another WP called in on behalf of that mate and the HBA agent was able to do the change, issue the ticket within 3 mins So there might be a competency issue, at least in this example

Now, going back to the same mate, he is now a WP (thanks to a someone who organised his status runs and made him a WP within 8 days of membership anniversary ) and now when he calls, he gets directed to AKL/HBA and he is getting the same level of competent service with his bookings ...

Onboard experience recently was also fantastic for me; aircraft was very clean, extensive offering on the IFE, good food, friendly/genuine service from most of the FAs, slight delay but no issues with baggage.

See this is my experience with most of the airlines I flew as well. But if someone is flying a certain route routinely, might find the same food offerings a bit boring, repetitive ...

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I think I understand what you mean. A good mate of mine, was NB beginning of Jan 2024 called in and the call was answered within a minute, albeit MNL. So that was a great experience for him as there was no *long wait*.

The same mate, on the same call wanted to change the travel date on his J ticket, but the, I apologise for the word *incompetent* agent at MNL, could not do a simple date change and kept arguing that his tickets T&C prevents any date changes (lol).

This is a clear case of your mate not being match fit for travel. It's clear that whatever the agent says in MNL is correct and they should simply bow their head and move on.

 

[Ade]

It's clear that whatever the agent says in MNL is correct and they should simply bow their head and move on.

Yea that's what I said and we HUCA But I don't think my mate saw the funny when I said that MNL agent is correct

 

[Happy Dude]

You sound like you believe there is only one truth.

All posts are probably true, as both good and bad experiences happen on all airlines every day. Every flight is different, every crew is different.

If you're after an aggregate picture, you need to consider that very few people will report good experiences, even less adequate ones; but lots of people will report negative experiences.

I see it all the time in hotel reviews. If you read through reviews for even the nicest hotels, they're full of negativity. In reality there much more likely to be good, but still entirely possible for some to have bad experiences. Most will have good experiences.

Of course I believe there's only one truth. That's why it's called the truth.

Just look at the number of people who constantly post in the QF forums who never, or at best rarely fly QF. Most are quite gleeful that they don't give QF a dollar of their money or that they haven't flown QF since the 70s or something. Yet they have something to say on every. single. post.

The OP was suggesting there's also a number of posters who defend QF, no matter what, without showing their interest/affiliations. At least the group you speak of do that. I'm probably in that group, but as a QAN shareholder, I take no glee in it. I'll comment if the topic is interesting enough or strikes a chord or if I'll learn something. My recent interactions with QF have been nothing short of disastrous by any measure - BIG issues with partner awards and being stranded in POM for two days. There's probably a very good reason they don't fly QF and I'm glad there's somewhere the experiences can be shared. Sorting the wheat from the chaff, as it were, is the hard part, and as I understand it, the point of this thread.

 

[DejaBrew]

<snip>
All of the above is long winded way of saying what I mentioned at the beginning of the post - all experiences (IMHO) we face is a reflection of what we endured before or after experiencing that experience and what that experience made us experience ...

Well put @Ade and completely agree.

I know I can be quick to whinge (on occasion) when something has gone awry on a flight (often compounded by other issues throughout the day/trip). Certainly this was the case in one of my very early AFF posts. But if I look at things objectively, my “perceived” issues are likely proportionate to the frustration felt from everything/anything else that has been going wrong. Similarly, I know I’m easy to please so it doesn’t take much for me to feel like I’ve had a great flight with good service.

On my recent trip to Korea (QF J in both directions), I had differing experiences for the outbound and inbound legs. On the face of it, one of these flights was a textbook example of exceptional customer service from check-in all the way through to arrival, whereas the other suffered from multiple “misses” both at the airport and on-board. But if I’m to be truly honest and objective about it, the multiple misses did not equate to a poor experience and if anything, the on-board service excelled on multiple fronts. Ultimately, both legs of the return flight were very enjoyable and if I was to be overly critical, I feel like I’d be exceedingly and unnecessarily picky. Of course, the next passenger may just as easily disagree with me and bemoan the “misses” as an example of QF’s deteriorating service. Each to their own and of course, everyone has a right to their own perspective/opinion.

Every brand has its fanboys/fangirls and there will always be someone who can’t use enough superlatives to extol the virtues of anything that brand says or does, just the same as there will always be rusted on detractors. At the end of the day, when consuming posts and comments on AFF, its up to each of us as individuals to determine how much stock we wish to place in the thoughts/perspectives voiced by the respective author(s).

I for one sincerely appreciate the collective wisdom of those with greater knowledge than I on many of the topics discussed in these forums. Generally speaking - and without wanting to be seen as pointing fingers at anyone with this comment - I would hate to see these people disappear from AFF due to the repeated assertion that they were a subversive actor (as I have seen happen before on various other forums). Such forums are often all the poorer for their departure.

 

[Scarlett]

@justinbrett @Happy Dude - get a room you two!

@Gold Member - nice thread

@RSVKanga - you are being tagged as ‘suspected external influencer of the QF PR division?’, because you started posting (in a number of threads) straight out of the gates like a paid shill! You use definitive language in place of personal opinions and also use generalisations when personal examples would seem more appropriate to your argument. But that’s just my opinion.

TLDR: some airlines are occasionally good or bad, or even mediocre! Other airlines are sometimes better and sometimes worse than the one I prefer / have just flown.

 

[p--and--t]

TLDR: some airlines are occasionally good or bad, or even mediocre! Other airlines are sometimes better and sometimes worse than the one I prefer / have just flown.

Do you belong here? Isn't it obvious that xx never does wrong and yy is just plain cough even tho I haven't flow them for 15 years.

Wink Wink

 

[Pushka]

I've just checked a couple of times I've posted in the Long Waiting Times for Qantas phones thread. Hells Bells, I've posted both complementary and uncomplimentary comments. A true Gemini.

I rail against people who state and infer that because a poor service issue never happens to them personally, then quite simply it can't exist. Isn't that the cognitive development of a toddler? If they can't see it then it doesn't exist.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Of course I believe there's only one truth. That's why it's called the truth.

Not entirely true. In some cultures there can be several truths. For instance in the United States it could be the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth.

suggesting there's also a number of posters who defend QF, no matter what, without showing their interest/affiliations. At least the group you speak of do that. I'm probably in that group, but as a QAN shareholder, I take no glee in it. I'll comment if the topic is interesting enough or strikes a chord or if I'll learn something. My recent interactions with QF have been nothing short of disastrous by any measure - BIG issues with partner awards and being stranded in POM for two days. There's probably a very good reason they don't fly QF and I'm glad there's somewhere the experiences can be shared. Sorting the wheat from the chaff, as it were, is the hard part, and as I understand it, the point of this thread.

Speaking specifically of QF, I think anyone who has flown sufficiently with them will have both good and bad stories. Some completely within control of the airline whilst others aren't. And this by the way isn't unique to QF. Fly any airline long enough and you'll have both experiences be it SQ, British Airways, BA (Emirates), UA, DL, LH, etc. What matters is the average experience and so long as it is a net positive your loyalty with them probably makes sense.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MooTime]

Not entirely true. In some cultures there can be several truths. For instance in the United States it could be the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth.

Well that yankie statement is purely an 'or / either' statement. Not both.

 

[RSVKanga]

You use definitive language in place of personal opinions and also use generalisations when personal examples would seem more appropriate to your argument.

Well I guess the same could apply to the OP post. I could say the same about GM’s post given the amount of generalisations, unsubstantiated claims and divisive rhetoric when evidence would seem more appropriate to to their argument. Until there is credible evidence supporting their claim that QF is influencing this community, I could myself start a thread claiming that QR is seeking to influence this forum and further worsen the negative image of the national carrier amongst its most loyal and premium customer base, as well as demonise people who continue to support Qantas as paid shills, shareholders etc. (which is my personal opinion). I won’t be posting that thread, I’m just saying I could argue the opposite as well with no credible evidence since this thread has no credible evidence!

You use definitive language in place of personal opinions and also use generalisations when personal examples would seem more appropriate to your argument.

Not my fault that I remain proud and supportive of the national carrier over a brutal foreign competitor.


At the end of the day however, and I’ve said this before, this would be the last place on the internet to successfully influence. Premium, long-time, loyal flyers have a very slim chance of being tainted in QF or QR’s favour (it’s possible) but airlines are better off using platforms like Facebook, Reddit or Instagram engaging with everyday Aussies who fly once or twice a year and successfully shift their opinion on QF, QR or any other airline.