An Open Letter to my fellow AFF members - External Influence on this website

[Duffa]

And for the record, I have plenty of great QF experiences. Check my posts.

 

[33kft]

Why would you? You'd just be another person on the internet with an opinion. There are members on this forum who are known to have current or prior positions at airlines in various roles and they are in my observation given more respect than those who simply speculate about how things are done.

I don't understand why it would track that if you were an airline employee and did not disclose it on these forums, that you'd be secretly positive about your employer? I am not on here shilling for my employer, they couldn't pay me to do it. I think if you had that level of anonymity you would be much more likely to use it to air all the grievances you have than to be company cheerleader on your own time.

Finally, if the theory is they are paid for it, why the hell would an airline invest in an employee who sits in the shadows posting on forums? They expect operational employees to do check in, cleaning and service for flights but pay someone to post anonymously to shill the airline in the expectation that one single anonymous voice online in a fairly obscure forum will change public opinion? Red roo was a much better advertisement than that would be.

 

[encryptededdy]

I want to know if members think there are Qantas staff on here, masquerading as ordinary AFFers. Yes or no.

Yes, I'm sure there are members here who work at Qantas (also members here who work at VA etc.). However, I don't think any of those members have tried to hide that affiliation, even if they don't explicitly state it.

No, I don't think Qantas or any other airline are paying them to shill on this forum. In fact, all the members I've seen here who seem to have insider knowledge about an airline have been openly critical of their airline at times.

 

[Himeno]

Ok. So, by sheer coincidence, I was online when GM made his OP.
The past 4 pages are irrelevant in terms of Qantas good or bad.
I want to know if members think there are Qantas staff on here, masquerading as ordinary AFFers. Yes or no.

No, Qantas closed that arm of the media/customer service team and the person paid to be here left.
Any airline staff who may be posting here are not speaking for that airline.

 

[33kft]

Perhaps a second question should be, even if there are a handful of airline employees who have not outed themselves posting positively about their employer, is there anything wrong with that? Someone here might be feeling like there's a witch hunt going on and they might be found out for doing... nothing outside of the forum community rules.

Perhaps if there is concern that a handful of anonymous airline employees might impact the forum harmony to such a degree that it needs action taken, there should be a rule that all airline employees identify this in their profile - similar to ozbargain and reps posting needing to identify themselves?

 

[Himeno]

Perhaps if there is concern that a handful of anonymous airline employees might impact the forum harmony to such a degree that it needs action taken, there should be a rule that all airline employees identify this in their profile - similar to ozbargain and reps posting needing to identify themselves?

That would be a terrible idea.
There is nothing wrong with people who work for an airline, hotel, etc to post on a forum like this. They don't speak for the company and are not reps of said company.
Most companies don't allow their staff to make online posts or speak to media on behalf of that company without authorization to do so. Making people who just happen to work for a company identify they happen to work there, gives the appearance that they are reps of that company, which will then get them in trouble at work and possibly fired.

 

[DejaBrew]

That would be a terrible idea.
There is nothing wrong with people who work for an airline, hotel, etc to post on a forum like this. They don't speak for the company and are not reps of said company.
Most companies don't allow their staff to make online posts or speak to media on behalf of that company without authorization to do so. Making people who just happen to work for a company identify they happen to work there, gives the appearance that they are reps of that company, which will then get them in trouble at work and possibly fired.

Agreed. Massive difference between AFF and a site like OzB (for which mandatory rep identification/association makes a whole world of sense).

 

[burmans]

Your logic seems to be...

1. Some AFF users believe and trust Qantas and its press releases, public pronouncements, and "representation". Therefore...
2. Those same AFF users have been "charged with influencing ... AFF".

Not sure I see the logic there.

Qantas and QFF have many, many millions of users in Australia. Despite the recent (well-deserved) bad publicity, many of those users/customers/members have been genuinely helped -- in some cases, even rescued! -- by Qantas and its staff, many of whom are competent and, yes, caring.

Could it not be that in the best possible way, those people want to support Qantas not because they're being incentivised or paid to, but because of their past positive experiences for which they're grateful?

I'm just suggesting that you be careful before accusing those users of anything deceptive or underhand until you've ruled out the other possibilities.

Sure it’s possible but some of these people seem to have an agenda beyond being just enthusiastic Qantas users, certainly enough for me to question their motives particularly when apart from promoting Qantas they also take all opportunities to run down competing airlines.

 

[burmans]

I want what this dude is smoking. Qantas are terrible, overpriced, barely offer service, have a monopoly over the business sector and they know it.
Bring on regulation like the EU regs and watch them finally offer service.

Can’t help but agree. We may all want Qantas to be great but that doesn’t mean we can’t recognise that at present it isn’t. There may be forums where this jingoistic support of the national carrier works but a forum like this full of people who actually fly a lot across various airlines and recognise that Qantas currently just isn’t matching expectations isn’t it.

 

[33kft]

That would be a terrible idea.

I happen to agree but my point was that given the fact we have this thread and a number of people showing concern that there might be airline staff posting begs the obvious question... What is AFF gonna do about it - ban airline staff from joining, identify airline staff somehow, or accept that not all airline staff are going to identify themselves and that they could possibly talk positively about their employer? (ie. the status quo)

 

[Human]

What is AFF gonna do about it

Here's an idea:

Treat every point given, and every argument made, on its merits, regardless of who posts it.

I really do believe that AFF as a community is robust enough to play the ball and not the person. Why worry about real or perceived hidden agendas (we all have our biases, after all)? Just treat the arguments on their merits and respond to them based on what they say, rather than who we think is making them.

 

[Rich]

Interesting discussion, but nothing has really come out to support the OP accusations, I.e. nothing more serious than QF having a few fans here.
Equally you see as many posts telling you how terrible everything about Qantas is. Some of those will also say they never fly Qantas. So much knowledge for people with no recent experience of the airline!

 

[p--and--t]

Interesting discussion, but nothing has really come out to support the OP accusations, I.e. nothing more serious than QF having a few fans here.
Equally you see as many posts telling you how terrible everything about Qantas is. Some of those will also say they never fly Qantas. So much knowledge for people with no recent experience of the airline!

Perhaps the next thread should be about those posters always seem to appear like clockwork in the first half dozen posts in any thread with anything to do with QF (and even those not related to QF) that make an over the top ridulous unrelated denigrative statement. A new conspiracy that these people are working for an undisclosed competitor to QF?

 

[SYD]

Perhaps the next thread should be about those posters always seem to appear like clockwork in the first half dozen posts in any thread with anything to do with QF (and even those not related to QF) that make an over the top ridulous unrelated denigrative statement. A new conspiracy that these people are working for an undisclosed competitor to QF?

Yes, it’s a pity there isn’t an “Eye roll” emoji option on the “Like” pop up.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, it’s a pity there isn’t an “Eye roll” emoji option on the “Like” pop up.

At least then it would be easier for mods to identify passive aggressive reactions (which are against the AFF ToS). Happens all the time now already, usually with the laughing emoji.

 

[Andy72]

It’s interesting just how much some posters dislike Qantas. It’s works for me as I have status, fly mostly to North America and New Zealand , and my large number of points helps with holidays / upgrades. I have flown a lot over the last 6 months and have noticed a big step up in service / friendliness on international flights. Had some delays, and one lot of baggage left behind, but overall international flights have been very pleasant. Flown JL, AF, BA, and AC and the best flight was on Air France, but QF better than the rest.

 

[RSVKanga]

It’s interesting just how much some posters dislike Qantas. It’s works for me as I have status, fly mostly to North America and New Zealand , and my large number of points helps with holidays / upgrades. I have flown a lot over the last 6 months and have noticed a big step up in service / friendliness on international flights. Had some delays, and one lot of baggage left behind, but overall international flights have been very pleasant. Flown JL, AF, BA, and AC and the best flight was on Air France, but QF better than the rest.

The silent majority of Australia still holds Qantas in a positive manner. I’m a Bronze FF and I’ve called Qantas many times recently and I’ve never experienced the so called “long wait” or “incompetent service” that many people who claim to be “long time gold and platinum loyalists” complain about online.

Onboard experience recently was also fantastic for me; aircraft was very clean, extensive offering on the IFE, good food, friendly/genuine service from most of the FAs, slight delay but no issues with baggage.

However Qantas have two crucial areas to improve, one being the fleet and the other being their network. An average aircraft age of 16 years is unacceptable when compared against the likes of SQ, EK and QR, and the amount of international aircraft in their fleet is also disappointing. Their limited amount of international destinations served on their own metal is underwhelming and unfortunately an expansion isn’t likely to take place given the ridiculously low amount of long haul aircraft ordered under Joyce. At least the network is better than pre-Covid though; new routes to destinations in in the likes of CDG, FCO, DEL and BLR, the introduction of SYD-AKL-JFK and MEL-DFW and upgrading Canada flights to year-round are all welcome additions.


There is clearly an attempt on many forums, social media platforms and the news media to assemble a collective online sentiment intended to undermine the national carrier through unsubstantiated arguments which could apply to any airline. I’m not sure whether or not Qatar Airways are playing or have played any role in this collective 2023 Qantas misinformation, gaslighting and smear campaign, but QR does have a tendency and intention to regulate the internet in their favour (and they have succeeded in their campaign if they did play a role in this) and all the issues that people are complaining about apply to every other major international airline, in some cases those problems apply more to them than Qantas.

 

[jase05]

It’s interesting just how much some posters dislike Qantas

I don’t dislike QF but I dislike what they have become and feel they have been poorly run and let go to the point it’s going to take a lot of work to get them back where they should be. They can be great airline ago but depends on whether they have the want or willingness to do so.

 

[Tropic]

While I'm absolutely sure there are QF employees posting on this forum, I'm not sure why this is an issue? If someone has one or a lifetime of bad experiences flying QF and posts about it here, other members posting responses defending QF is not going to change the OPs experience or invalidate their views regarding QF, nor would it necessarily influence any other AFF members views of QF either way. That assumes of course that most people form their views based on their own experience and objective evidence, not what other people post on this or any other social media site. As a QF LTG WP, I prefer to fly QF dom but not intl

 

[Lynda2475]

But what I don’t love are third parties and unofficial company representatives infiltrating our ranks, trying to build credibility and legitimacy while masquerading as everyday AFF folk purely to influence and mislead us with their political agendas and commercial interests.

I have yet to see any evidence substantiating this claim. And even if it were true, this rant entirely disrespects the intelligence of legit AFF members to read varying opinion and make up their own minds.

As someone who claims to be all for freedom of speech, why are you so convinced that others who may hold differing viewpoints wrt certain airlines or government decisions relating to aviation matters cant have come to their viewpoint based on their own experiences and criteria?

If you have hard evidence of paid content or other breach of AFF terms, then report the post. If their viewpoint is not the same as yours or the majority it doesn't mean its been paid for or the poster is an employee with an agenda to support their employer. Don't like a certain persons viewpoint, don't read their posts on that matter or ignore them altogether.

Different issues are of varying importance to different people. If i am passionate about something I speak up, my opinions and values are my own and are not for sale.