Another A380 problem

[serfty]

Whether there is entitlement to cash compensation will depend on whether it would be classed as a technical/extraordinary situation with the deicing equipment ceasing to function and a replacement not being available

Recent EU case law decisions have deemed that Technical issues can generally* not be deemed to have been caused by Extraordinary circumstances.

* RECENT CASE-LAW - Results

...
3. Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that a technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation or delay of a flight is not covered by the concept of 'extraordinary circumstances' within the meaning of that provision, unless that problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control.

 

[simongr]

Thanks serfty for the clarification on EU compensation - I think

On benefit already is the extra SC's and points for two flight numbers now QF 31 SYD-SIN and QF8031 SIN-LHR. not much of a bonus but I am now renewed to WP until 2011 I think. The website is not overly clear:

 Current Status:   Platinum

Status reassessment will occur: 30 Sep 2010

Status credits earned from 01 Oct 2009: 1,300

Additional Status credits required by 30 Sep 2010 to receive
complimentary 'Partner Gold' membership: 800

I don't see why status reassessment will occur on 30 Sep 2010 as I now enough status credits to renew WP...

Is this standard wording?

 

[chrisb]

I don't see why status reassessment will occur on 30 Sep 2010 as I now enough status credits to renew WP...

Is this standard wording?

Yeah, that's normal. It'll update at some point in the future, probably closer to the date given for reassessment.

It would have previously also had SC's required to renew Plat listed - since that's gone, its a sign the system knows you've reached that goal.

 

[anat0l]

I don't see why status reassessment will occur on 30 Sep 2010 as I now enough status credits to renew WP...

Is this standard wording?

Yes. You haven't hit the PG target yet.

In any case, I wonder if it leaves it there so you know when you have to "do it all over again".

 

[simongr]

I am actually on the knife edge of switching the remainder of my flights for this status year to AA for better earn/burn ratios...

 

[jb747]

A QF A380 today (QF31 SIN-LHR) failed to leave SIN this morning due to mechanical problems with the de-icing "whatsit".

The aircraft pushed back on time and the crew did the safety briefing but it was only at the end of the runway that the final checks showed the deicing whatsit was inoperable so the aircraft returned to the gate for repairs.

It was the captain's #1 window heat. A no go item.

Initial estimates were 1 hour to install and test... 3 hours later the aircraft was emptied of pax... They couldn't source the part...

Engineers don't give estimates. They give pieces of string. First they have to actually isolate the problem (controller card, the window itself, power supply, computer hardware or software, and probably a bunch of other possibles.) Then they have to get hold of whatever is required to fix it, and then lastly the actual fix itself. Mostly though, on the 380, all issues are computer related, and a shutdown and restart is all that's required.

- Poor communication throughout the time on the tarmac - no real updates on what was going on

Difficult. As often as not the engineers keep saying one hour, until the instant it's fixed. Not much point saying that nothing has changed.

- No real information provided to pax on when they would be departing again (I found out through myflights app on the iPhone)

I don't think they had any idea until quite a long time later.

In around 150 flights over the past 3-4 years this is my first major incident of this kind.

Not really what I'd call an incident. Annoying though. For everyone, passengers and crew.

 

[jb747]

Really silly how they couldn't get the part, but I'm imagining QF didn't put much effort into ensuring an adequate secondary A380 hub for its craft at SIN, although it begs to reason why they couldn't go begging SQ (who have a number of A380s hubbed at SIN, naturally) to see if they could help identify and locate a part (albeit possibly with some extortion involved).

How many parts do you think there are in a 380? Which ones do you keep as spares? There is quite a supply carried on the aircraft, but nobody is likely to have a spare window heat controller. Airbus just haven't even made most of the parts people need.....

The only ones SQ were likely to have would almost certainly have been installed in aircraft.

As for not putting in the effort, that's just a silly comment. This was an extremely expensive exercise for QF, and they'd go to great lengths to avoid the sort of disruption that pulling a 380 out for a day would cause. The aircraft was eventually ferried back to Australia from London, so add that to the costs.

 

[docjames]

The aircraft was eventually ferried back to Australia from London, so add that to the costs.

jb747, welcome to the forum (i've seen you post in a couple of threads now - do you have a connection to QF??)

Wow, yes an expensive exercise. Was the aircraft ferried back to be repaired here, or ferried back to restart service? Asking as i'm wondering why it didnt at least carry some revenue pax or freight with it (or some of the pax bumped from the scheduled flight??)

 

[markis10]

How many parts do you think there are in a 380? Which ones do you keep as spares? There is quite a supply carried on the aircraft, but nobody is likely to have a spare window heat controller. Airbus just haven't even made most of the parts people need.....

The only ones SQ were likely to have would almost certainly have been installed in aircraft.

I find your comements to be remarkable, given SQ are close to having their first C check on the A380, SQ have been working very closely with Airbus to make sure they do have spares and in fact have a permanent staffer from Hamilton Sundstrand in their office whose job it is to ensure all is available.

I am sure Mr B Leong would be interested to read your comment about all the spares being installed in planes, you will note his primary role is with SIA and SIAEC laison but I also draw attention to his secondary role: "act as the Hamilton Sundstrand Roving Rep Expert for the A380 in Asia Pacific where I also support QANTAS, Korean Airways, Thai Airways, Malaysian Airlines, etc for A380 Technical Support". Given the crossover I am sure if anyone could find a part, its a staffer in Singapore!

BTW - Airbus dont make spares - these contractors do, and given the frames in storage including some QF birds, there is no issue with availability even if they do have to rip one from storage.

Airbus A380 - program supplier guide

I might also add that QF have an agreement with Spairliners to hold 750 different assemblies at their warehouse for immediate despatch for the QF A380 fleet ex Hamburg, would not surprise me to hear the part eventually came form there given most of the heating compinents where of German Origin in the first place.

 

[jb747]

I find your comements to be remarkable, given SQ are close to having their first C check on the A380, SQ have been working very closely with Airbus to make sure they do have spares and in fact have a permanent staffer from Hamilton Sundstrand in their office whose job it is to ensure all is available.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no way on earth that they have 'all available'. They will have a selection (which is possibly quite large) based upon Airbus recommendations, and their own experience. And this will be affected by availability...whether the part is made by Airbus or not.

When the aircraft starts its check, parts will have been ordered/stockpiled based upon what is expected to happen, but it would be almost certain that as soon as the work starts, additional parts would be found to be needed. These may well be one offs, and so won't be ordered for the next aircraft, though they could also show up unexpected wear, and so affect ongoing stock carriage. The 380 is using up quite a few of its components in ways that Airbus didn't anticipate.

Given the crossover I am sure if anyone could find a part, its a staffer in Singapore!

And that may well be the case, but he couldn't or didn't, did he.

Or perhaps the problem was one of making it available, rather than finding it. As for aircraft in Germany. Yep, they have a full package of spares, but I think you'll that they can't be looked at as mobile fields of spare parts.

 

[jb747]

jb747, welcome to the forum (i've seen you post in a couple of threads now - do you have a connection to QF??)

Wow, yes an expensive exercise. Was the aircraft ferried back to be repaired here, or ferried back to restart service? Asking as i'm wondering why it didnt at least carry some revenue pax or freight with it (or some of the pax bumped from the scheduled flight??)

A380 captain. I flew it back to Oz. It had freight, but was not carrying passengers. Presumably they'd all been moved to other aircraft/airlines somewhere in the preceding 24 hours. The repair was completed in Singapore before it left northbound.

Do a search for JB in relation to 747. You should be able to work out all you need from that.

 

[Must...Fly!]

A380 captain. I flew it back to Oz. It had freight, but was not carrying passengers. Presumably they'd all been moved to other aircraft/airlines somewhere in the preceding 24 hours. The repair was completed in Singapore before it left northbound.

Do a search for JB in relation to 747. You should be able to work out all you need from that.

Welcome to AFF!

A few staffers from various airlines have been joining recently...stick around!

 

[markis10]

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no way on earth that they have 'all available'. They will have a selection (which is possibly quite large) based upon Airbus recommendations, and their own experience. And this will be affected by availability...whether the part is made by Airbus or not..

Firstly let me echo others and welcome, while I did not intend to infer complete spares to cover all situations were available, I did intend to point our your statement

The only ones SQ were likely to have would almost certainly have been installed in aircraft

was clearly an embellishment of the truth given SQ are the launch customer.

As for aircraft in Germany. Yep, they have a full package of spares, but I think you'll that they can't be looked at as mobile fields of spare parts.

A mobile spare part facility seems to be precisely why your employer signed the agreement:
http://airfranceindustries.airfranc..._Spairliners_QantasA380ComponentsContract.pdf

 

[docjames]

A380 captain. I flew it back to Oz. It had freight, but was not carrying passengers. Presumably they'd all been moved to other aircraft/airlines somewhere in the preceding 24 hours. The repair was completed in Singapore before it left northbound.

Do a search for JB in relation to 747. You should be able to work out all you need from that.

Thanks for clarifying. What an awesome job (most of the time!)

welcome again!

 

[Ric]

Do a search for JB in relation to 747. You should be able to work out all you need from that.

jb747,

Welcome on board AFF! Should be smooth flying all the way but do expect the ocassional turbulence from the left field!

Did what you said above and came out with this:

Is that you?

Ric

ps: Mods, if the picture is inappropriate, please delete

 

[oz_mark]

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no way on earth that they have 'all available'.

Hi jb747,

Go ahead, burst his bubble. Just don't burst his oxygen tank! There's been enough of them following you around :mrgreen:

oh, and welcome to aff

 

[markis10]

Go ahead, burst his bubble. Just don't burst his oxygen tank! There's been enough of them following you around :mrgreen:

+1 , always happy for my bubble to be burst should it be proven the air used was in error

 

[jb747]

Firstly let me echo others and welcome, while I did not intend to infer complete spares to cover all situations were available, I did intend to point our your statement was clearly an embellishment of the truth given SQ are the launch customer.

Being the launch customer doesn't really mean that they will have a selection of spares much different to EK or QF. They will have had more time to be caught out by not having a spare, but that info goes to AB and the rest of the world.

A mobile spare part facility seems to be precisely why your employer signed the agreement:.........

That's fine, but an undelivered healthy aircraft is not a source of spares. There are ownership issues for a start, but also legal ones with Christmas treeing aircraft. It was simple once, but isn't these days.

 

[jb747]

Is that you?

The chick. No, that's Dr June Kane.

Actually, I'm not surprised if you get a few staff joining. I used to post on aus.aviation, but that was mostly taken over by fruit loops and cross posters. Pprune has its uses, but unfortunately the mods have made it open, so it's anything but a professional pilot's forum. Too many 'would be if they could be', rather poorly balanced by too many 'retired and we didn't do it like that in my day'.

The FF forums are interesting. Generally lots of genuine interest in what goes on, but also with enough experience to understand that it doesn't always to to plan. Since they banned pax in the coughpit, I make an effort to go back and meet as many of my passengers as I can. I learn lots of interesting stuff that way, as well as meeting lots of interesting people.

 

[markis10]

That's fine, but an undelivered healthy aircraft is not a source of spares. There are ownership issues for a start, but also legal ones with Christmas treeing aircraft. It was simple once, but isn't these days.

Agree totally, I think the NTSB and others got a wake up call when an audit of Air Force 1 showed many parts whose heritage was questionable to say the least, we forget sometimes that red tape does occasionally have a purpose.

There has been considerable discussion on this board and others on the relability of the A380, given your experience I would be interested to hear your opinion if possible and also what you consider are the key differences between it and the 747 from up the front, for instance are pilots really getting too much info on possible issues?