ANZ Cancelling or Suspending Points

[Nutcase]

Would be very interested to hear how you paid this back given your previous admission you had spent the points. And the other previous claim that the bank then clawed it back. Doesn't sound to like you paid it back, it sounds like they took it leaving a negative balance. You really need to get your story straight.

In the cases I mention there was a clerical error in the money being sent to the wrong account too, this does not mean the recipient was entitled to spend the money.

Oh and yes, they paid it back too eventually in some cases, didn't stop the theft conviction.

Please wait until Ive finished the post and quote the entire section in context before you launch your next round of vitriol.

Thanks.

 

[cove]

We went to ANZ recently with their two different Black cards so I am reading along with all of you.
kpc I saw you knew a points millionaire. There would be a number of these in AFF I would think.

 

[siri]

Citi Platinum with QF also start to limit points from1:1 after 4K/month and anything after 4K/month get half points.. Pls. check the 4K since number is around that. Whole system will start from April/May this year.
I always use Amex for business and got few millions points. Get a Amex Rewards advantage card and it covers almost all major airlines FF in Apac.
Almost all big corporations insist on using corp card and I never ask for it since in Australia Amex policy is although it is a corp card, all purchase on that card, you are legally responsible. So why bother?
Having your own Amex card also fool Corp acct thinking it is a corp card since it is Amex and they never check it anyway.

 

[Gazza129]

I'd say the OP got caught as it was a new card and he lumped squillions on it early, raising alarms. Still a shame though.

 

[cs1575]

Looks like I might be cancelling mine too...

 

[darrend]

Ok found it.

Using the credit card account

(3) How you can use the credit card account
(a) The credit card account must be used wholly and exclusively for your personal, domestic or household use

Unfortunately that seems to be pretty clear cut.

Many people do of course put through business spend on private cards, but in your case they have examined the spend.

I'm not a lawyer by any means and not even sure if it applies but I thought there were some protections in consumer law in respect to legality of "unfair" contracts (or clauses therein). Seems to me to exclude Business transactions is unfair given everything else is in and moreover to benefit from the fees etc charged on those transactions and not pass on the fruits of your funds spent on those transactions is unfair to say the least.

 

[coco50]

I operate a small sole trading business, having retired as a teacher ten years ago. I purchase things for the business such as computers and stationery, as well as travel overseas to attend conferences related to the business that I operate. Years ago I was advised by bank staff to use a rewards card and put all expenditure - personal and business-related on the card and pay it out in full each month, thus avoiding interest and earning reward points. I must say that this bank was not ANZ and anyway I had severed my ties with ANZ some years previously. The question remains - what is a business expense? An overseas flight? a ream of paper? A hotel stay? for me all three could be considered either business or personal depending on the nature of the transaction. Tell ANZ to go and get...further information and sign up to a card with less chickensh*t T&Cs

 

[coco50]

I'd say the OP got caught as it was a new card and he lumped squillions on it early, raising alarms. Still a shame though.

My monthly CC spend is ~$5000 . Sometimes more

 

[FirstClass]

This stuff reminds me of superannuation. People count their chickens but the rules are so complex and changed so often one may as well not bother. Former Ansett points holders will have an additional reason to be suspicious of 'investing' in loyalty schemes.

 

[Gazza129]

A few years ago I had to replace a cancelled card. It took ages and I wrote to the bank mentioning I needed it urgently for business and suggested a courier option. The lady from the bank called me sorted the issue and then said "off the record" I shouldn't be using it for business.......... it wasn't ANZ, but I suspect they all have the same Ts and Cs.

My monthly CC spend is ~$5000 . Sometimes more

Ours with 2 businesses is substantially more but it has been fairly consistent for years perhaps not raising eyebrows at the bank.

 

[coralda]

Been through the ANZ complaints process myself recently. Not quite the same scale but did manage a positive outcome.

After opening a new Black QF card, they failed to deliver the bonus points. Four months of excuses later, the finally explained that my "Breakfree" package (and associated fee reduction) excluded my card from the Bonus 50,000 points. Probably reasonable. However, had I known this I would have opted for the "free in the first year" option rather then the reduced fee. I took the position that the Bank had failed its obligations under the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 by relying on fine print. (I had just finished my employer's CCA training )

The process was to lodge a formal, internal complaint. This was dealt with in a professional manner with significant but not sufficient compensation offered. I declined the offer and the next stage was to contact ANZ's own Customer Advocate - details provided by ANZ in their final complaint correspondence. Again the Customer Advocate was professional and timely and offered to honour the bonus points. The next step would have been the Ombudsman.

Depending on when you opened the card and what the offer material looked like, I reckon you may have a valid argument. If the T&Cs conflict with the Law then you may have a hope. I wonder how relatively vague terms such as "personal expenditure" would stack up against offers of "unlimited" points.

Good luck!

 

[samh004]

If the terms say the card was only to be used for personal transactions, despite being rarely enforced other than now, you probably just have to accept it. But I'm sure some of the purchases made during the period weren't "business" and you'd have every right to have those points back. If you wanted to continue earning points from business purchases, I believe there are some good Aquire-connected cards out there.

 

[Deleted member]

This is why I don't hoard Points with the Bank. everything goes automatically to QFF account. i know i am always going to fly rather than buy toasters.

 

[Gazza129]

This is why I don't hoard Points with the Bank. everything goes automatically to QFF account. i know i am always going to fly rather than buy toasters.

What? You don't like spending 400,000 points on a new toaster?:mrgreen:

 

[equus]

I'm not a lawyer by any means and not even sure if it applies but I thought there were some protections in consumer law in respect to legality of "unfair" contracts (or clauses therein). Seems to me to exclude Business transactions is unfair

My bolding. Sort of the point really. Consumer law protects consumers - Business transactions for the most part are outside of Consumer protections (especially when this is Consumer Credit Law we are talking about).

I would be fairly certain, that it is not just the T&C that has this, but there will have been a declaration on the Credit Application, along with the required Consumer Credit disclosures that would have talked about using the credit for personal, domestic or household use. I am sure the OP read the application declarations carefully before signing.... (not that it matters...)

 

[equus]

If the terms say the card was only to be used for personal transactions, despite being rarely enforced other than now, you probably just have to accept it. But I'm sure some of the purchases made during the period weren't "business" and you'd have every right to have those points back.

They have that one covered. The T&C for earning rewards state that you don't earn rewards if you breach the Terms of Use of the card - no per transaction segregation but blanket. Breach the terms of use and no rewards at all.

 

[Lord Mud]

With all due respect to the OP. for that kind of business spend there quite a few personally backed business credit cards out there that do attract points (CBA bus plat for example). I know some have upper limits within a year but still.. thats a hell of a lot business expenditure on a personal card. Its certianly not for me to tell ppl how to spend their money but still $200K of spending in a short period of time would certainly attract the attention of the "falcon"

 

[Moopere]

I 100% agree with Robert Barlow

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....or-suspending-points-73175-7.html#post1382184

What is business spend? Unless some enquiries were made by the bank, the answers to which satisfied them that this was indeed business spend then its just the normal heavy handed approach taken by so many institutions these days. They might as well put into the T&C "this card is not for wealthy people". I mean, seriously, define business spend by simply looking at the line items on a statement without further information? A big ATO payment? Nope ... the OP might simply be extremely wealthy and have a lot of personal tax to pay - such people do exist, they pay more tax in a quarter than I'll probably pay over my working life. Paying known wholesale businesses? Buying car(s), regular payments to suppliers? Nope - none of those unless you know up front what the end-use is.

Now, certainly, an institution with decent data mining capabilities at its beck and call will be able to do decent profiling, but even this doesn't mean that they are always right, it just poses the prospect of further enquiries.

 

[burmans]

Please wait until Ive finished the post and quote the entire section in context before you launch your next round of vitriol.

Thanks.

I quoted what you posted directly using the Reply with Quote function, interesting concept that I should hold off posting and allow you time to re-word when I find the holes in your posting or that I'm somehow supposed to know you are going to reword your whole post when you read it and realise it makes you look a little stupid.

This WAS the whole post that I quoted as at the time of posting that I quoted, which context would you have had me add?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Talk about being buried in the T&C.......

Couple of points that work on your side OP:

- Everyone does it... if ANZ were genuinely serious about culling business spend from these cards, they'd lose half their userbase overnight considering the large% of Australians who have some kind of small business.

- Your spend was 100% personal. You personally made the transaction, using your own funds, your own credit limit which ANZ deemed acceptable, and it was your decision. Just because someone else reimbursed you for the transaction/s doesn't instantly classify it as a business transaction - and if it does - then again - ANZ can go cancel the other 50% of their member bases' cards. I bought a washing machine for mum and she paid me cash, consider me guilty!

If it were me - I would try and have the merchant refund the transaction and charge another card if possible (pay the fee for them to sweeten the deal). This way you're guaranteed to get the points, and ANZ don't get to reap the financial benefits from your transaction.