Are A380's safe enough to fly? [hairline cracks found in wings]

[The Rok]

Well I think the biggest bonus for Boeing on the 747-800 is that the 747 Project has already paid for itself, meaning they can actually sell the 747-800 at a significant discount compared to the A380-800. Knowing that, if Boeing can actually deliver favourable performance figures then they should have one up on Airbus.

If Airbus cannot recoup its development costs from the A380 then surely they will scrap it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well I think the biggest bonus for Boeing on the 747-800 is that the 747 Project has already paid for itself, meaning they can actually sell the 747-800 at a significant discount compared to the A380-800. Knowing that, if Boeing can actually deliver favourable performance figures then they should have one up on Airbus.

If Airbus cannot recoup its development costs from the A380 then surely they will scrap it.

Just as Boeing has saved some money on development costs, Airbus has already spent the money on the A380. Now is payback time. They will continue to make them to recoup the costs they have outlaid (until such a point where ongoing work can't keep a whole factory employed). What Airbus will be doing is looking to maximise the production line viability, striking the balance between the delivery of current orders, and keeping the line going long enough so that new orders can come in. If they were to ramp up production too much now, and run out of work too quickly, then they may well have to close the line (or swap the work to new aircraft models).

 

[jb747]

If Airbus cannot recoup its development costs from the A380 then surely they will scrap it.

Why would they care? It was paid for by the European taxpayer.

 

[Mal]

I disagree. It's a very expensive niche player now, that offers few advantages for most airlines. I will be surprised if the eventual numbers built even reach the current order numbers. Basically, I expect cancellations, without enough new orders to balance them.

As the driver vs the passenger, I'm sure we look at different items, but for me:
- The better climate control onboard - less dehydration IMHO.
- composite materials usage. IIRC, the Airbus and the 787 were the first to use these.
- The noise proofing inside.

All of these will lead into other Airbus designs.

 

[jb747]

As the driver vs the passenger, I'm sure we look at different items, but for me:
- The better climate control onboard - less dehydration IMHO.

People are forever saying that, and I really can't see what they mean. It's just as dry as the previous aircraft, and pressurised to pretty much the same levels. Basically people have been told it was better, and believe it....but it's not any different to anything else that I've seen.

- composite materials usage. IIRC, the Airbus and the 787 were the first to use these.

Actually there are composites in lots of aircraft. It certainly hasn't helped the 380 with weigh control though.

- The noise proofing inside.

Modern sound proofing. I'd expect a new 748 to be every bit as quiet. Actually I saw one in Singapore the other day, and its engines were notably quiet.

Look at it another way. It carries 50% more passengers than a 777, and burns twice the fuel. It is carrying around 100 tonnes of additional aircraft dead mass around (compared to a 744)...but approximately 100 passengers over a 744. Those numbers are pretty hard to align with the stars....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...

Basically people have been told it was better, and believe it....
...

exactly! Just like people were told and now somehow accept that an angled plank passes for a 'comfortable bed'

 

[serfty]

It was frustrating seeing two 388 as I departed MEL yesterday and two more in SYD - knowing my QF11 80K had changed earlier in the week to a 744 seat.

I guess maybe many airlines are currently keeping a very close eye on the 787 and it's composite technology. With the cost of fuel these days, the savings that type of construction may provide, it could become very desirable, particularly if it can stay reliably airborne.

Posted on a wing and a prayer

 

[markis10]

It was frustrating seeing two 388 as I departed MEL yesterday and two more in SYD - knowing my QF11 80K had changed earlier in the week to a 744 seat.

I guess maybe many airlines are currently keeping a very close eye on the 787 and it's composite technology. With the cost of fuel these days, the savings that type of construction may provide, it could become very desirable, particularly if it can stay reliably airborne.

Posted on a wing and a prayer

I think they are keeping an even closer eye on the 777 and it's derivatives, another major order for a Chinese airline is very close.

 

[Robmn]

I'm close enough to the end of my career to simply walk if I was unhappy.

Noticed the grey hair

 

[Sprucegoose]

Why would they care? It was paid for by the European taxpayer.

Yes it's almost a bizarre social experiment....Can we actually work togather..euro style so bound for a degree of failure.

 

[munitalP]

People are forever saying that, and I really can't see what they mean. It's just as dry as the previous aircraft, and pressurised to pretty much the same levels. Basically people have been told it was better, and believe it....but it's not any different to anything else that I've seen.


Actually there are composites in lots of aircraft. It certainly hasn't helped the 380 with weigh control though.


Modern sound proofing. I'd expect a new 748 to be every bit as quiet. Actually I saw one in Singapore the other day, and its engines were notably quiet.

Look at it another way. It carries 50% more passengers than a 777, and burns twice the fuel. It is carrying around 100 tonnes of additional aircraft dead mass around (compared to a 744)...but approximately 100 passengers over a 744. Those numbers are pretty hard to align with the stars....

Well said.

 

[Happy Trails]

Why would they care? It was paid for by the European taxpayer.

True enough, but Boeing aren't entirely without form where government subsidies are concerned.

 

[markis10]

More cracks have been found:

Qantas has found the more serious "type two" cracks in the wings of the two A380s it has inspected since European air-safety regulators ordered checks of the worldwide fleet of Airbus superjumbos last month.


Australia's largest airline is considering pursuing Airbus for compensation for the disruptions caused by the inspections and repairs to its flagship aircraft.
Engineers discovered "limited" numbers – or fewer than 10 – "type two" cracks on both the Nancy-Bird Walton, which has been under repair in Singapore since suffering a mid-air engine explosion in November 2010, and another A380. The latter has been repaired and since returned to service.

Read more: More cracks found in A380 wings
​

 

[MEL_Traveller]

More cracks have been found:

Read more: More cracks found in A380 wings
​

And looking at compensation for the disruptions - as I mentioned at #151 in this thread. EK has pointed out it has lost revenue. So I would imagine QF will also be pursing that.

 

[ozmille]

I'm still looking forward to my first A380 flight 14 days.

 

[Danger]

And looking at compensation for the disruptions - as I mentioned at #151 in this thread. EK has pointed out it has lost revenue. So I would imagine QF will also be pursing that.

EK has also said they are offering miles and/or money as compensation to passengers who had booked to fly on the A380 but had an aircraft substitution. Kinda changes the whole 'you booked a ticket from X to Y and that's what we'll deliver on' argument.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I posted this in the 'oil' thread, but l'll post this section of the Bloomberg article here, interesting.

Emirates Says

A380 ‘Mess’

Earnings at Emirates are also being hurt by the continued grounding of Airbus SAS A380 superjumbos, of which it’s the No. 1 operator, after the discovery of wing cracks. Six of the jets, which generate $50,000 an hour 15 hours a day, are out of action for repairs, idling 830 cabin crew and 160 pilots, and the carrier is having to compensate people set on an A380 trip.

“That’s had a poleaxing affect in the last nearly three months,” Clark said, estimating the revenue loss so far at $90 million. “Those airplanes are always full, they’re always popular. We’ve had multiple cancellations. We’ve had people telling us ‘Well you sold me the A380’, so we had to throw in 5,000 or 10,000 miles or give money back. It’s a mess.”

Emirates operates 21 A380s, with 69 more on order as it seeks to establish Dubai as a global hub in competition with Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, Qatar Airways Ltd. and European carriers including Air France-KLM Group (AF) and British Airways.

The company is due to get five more A380s by September, and Clark said he’ll meet Airbus next week to determine whether that could change and what the solution to the wing cracks will be.

 

[Robmn]

I'm still looking forward to my first A380 flight 14 days.

44 smile

 

[MEL_Traveller]

EK has also said they are offering miles and/or money as compensation to passengers who had booked to fly on the A380 but had an aircraft substitution. Kinda changes the whole 'you booked a ticket from X to Y and that's what we'll deliver on' argument.

Of course EK is. QF is one of the few airlines that tries to get away with that whole thing. I don't mind so much in First (QF 747 vs A380) - but if you were a biz class passenger you'd be upset.

 

[rechoboam]

Of course EK is. QF is one of the few airlines that tries to get away with that whole thing. I don't mind so much in First (QF 747 vs A380) - but if you were a biz class passenger you'd be upset.

It's a totally different experience..what options are there with QF if that happens? Will they at least waive a change fee?