Are other airlines also as bad as Qantas?

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It was briefly mentioned in page 4, I would imagine that Australian Consumer Law should apply - re the Consumer Guarantee, you clearly did not receive the product//service which you paid for, in which case you should be entitled to a refund or replacement.
That's my simplified response and I'm not a lawyer, however you should certainly look into this.
 
Hi Flying mermaid, When your daughter and fiancee comes home, you should talk to them how they felt about the experience and if they think they need some sort of compensation for you, and apology for them etc. If so, do not worry about letters, you AND your daughter should dive into the Qantas Facebook, tell your story, and the shabby treatment offered by Qantas, even if it is within their T&C. You would start the story from your angle, and your daughter would get on explaining the problems from hers. You as the ticket buyer would confirm your daughter' comments saying what Qantas did(or in your case), did not do....You get the idea. Once a dialog gets going between parties, some one from Qantas will chime in to hose down the bad very public energy.

I have found Facebook to be excellent for this purpose. Many time I can send letters, emails etc, mostly to get fobbed off. Once a dialog kicks off on their page between my wife and self, usually a request comes from whoever to pm them. I have also learnt, if their reply is not within their promised date, back on Facebook....sooner or later, they are going to have to deal with you, and their Facebook readers watching on.
 
It is a business class fare - hard to see much sympathy from the average Australian - that's why we have this board :)


Regardless of whether it's a business class fare, there is the principle of getting what you paid for - one way or the other!
 
I really think this compensation thing won't be solved until we have legislation to force Qantas to do the right thing. Their terms and conditions pretty much allow them to do what they like.

The Qantas terms and conditions shouldn't be read as 'law'. They're not! They are just qantas setting out what it thinks is its contract with you. Australian consumer law overrides the QF terms and conditions, and general contract law applies.

You should never assume terms and conditions are valid, always start from the reverse... that they're not. I would be very surprised if a court upheld QF's involuntary refund policy for example.
 
I booked a business class airport transfer with Blacklane Limos and they sent a economy model car (Dodge Challenger). They offered me a $15 credit on my next booking which i declined. Asked for a $15 to be credited back to Amex card. They said they dont do that. I lodged a charge back with Amex an got the full amount refunded in 24 hours as i didn't get the service i paid for.....
 
Well QF certainly aren't alone in that regard, but you and your family do seem to have had an inordinately poor run of this happening. Hope it gets better (on whatever airline you choose).

This is my Etihad experience. Four years ago I booked myself and two other family members F class from AUH to DUS.

After our flights have been ticketed for several months, Etihad pulled out of the AUH-DUS route and moved us to Air Berlin's J cabin.

For those who don't know, four year sago when Air Berlin became Etihad's strategic partner, they had only just moved from being a low cost European charter carrier to the full service airline league, which meant their J cabin was equivalent to the international PE, at best.

I objected and proposed a move to Etihad operated service AUH-FRA (absorbing travel between FRA and DUS at MY COST). Etihad declined and we continued to argue to teh point of exhaustion.

Several months later (whilst still arguing) they changed a/c type on the route AUH-FRA to Y/J configuration only. I even accepted downgrade from Etihad F to Etihad J, but would not accept Air Berlin's 'supposed' J cabin. Etihad declined again!

We ended up in a lock down and with 2 days spare before travel (with no other options options available to me at that late stage), I begrudgingly accepted on a compromise, i.e. stand-by in Etihad J from AUH to FRA, subject to availability on the day of ops. It turned out J cabin was available at the time of check-in and we flew in J cabin from AUH to FRA.

Compensation for downgrade from confirmed F to stand-by J had not come willingly and over many arguments with several (useless) layers of management within their Guest Relations department, we received a token amount of Etihad Guest miles.

Not that it should matter, but I held Gold Etihad Guest status at the time of that mistreatment.

Four years later my anger had subsided and recently, I booked myself BNE-AUH in F, returning AUH to SYD in J. Return flight was a completely mismanaged debacle from start to finish, and I missed my domestic connection from SYD to BNE, which was booked on separate ticket with QF, resulting in an overnight stay in SYD at my expense.

I used this opportunity to test the progress Etihad had made in the last four years in the space of GENUINE care and accountability for personal shortfalls by writing in to them and explaining the situation. I received a template response, lecturing me on terms and conditions of carriage, paying general lip service about how they hope to do better next time ... AND (wait for this) ... inviting me to join their Eitihad Guest Loyalty Program !!!

That was at the time when I was still Etihad Guest Gold member (although through flying Etihad partners, not Etihad itself), which was evident from my boarding passes, my travel itinerary, Etihad's internal databases such as electronic booking/reservation file, passenger manifest, not to mention all my correspondence with their Guest Relations department, including return correspondence from the Etihad's dedicated Gold member email address.

I accept things will go wrong when leaving to humans to be in charge, but my philosophy is to judge the airline by their ability to recover from the bad situation. In my experience, Etihad had proven cultural inability to recover from the unjust treatment of their passengers (guests), because there is no genuine intent and genuine care behind their service promise.

Following this last insult, and after I explained my feelings to Etihad in no uncertain terms, they put an abrupt stop to communication, and thus, five month after this latest incident, the matter remains unresolved and ignored on part of Etihad. However badly Qantas may have behaved towards the colleague traveller, I would take them over Etihad any time.
 
It was briefly mentioned in page 4, I would imagine that Australian Consumer Law should apply - re the Consumer Guarantee, you clearly did not receive the product//service which you paid for, in which case you should be entitled to a refund or replacement.
That's my simplified response and I'm not a lawyer, however you should certainly look into this.


This is my thought too: if you buy something and it is not fit for purpose, not as represented, or broken you are entitled to a full refund.

Any business that values its customers will look after them and try to fix problems. This is the heartof QF's problems: it just does not care about the self-loading freight…

As others stated, if a hotel over books or has problems a room upgrade results. I stated at a Hilton Doubletree hotel a few years ago. There were 2 problems with the room. Result: moved to another room and no cahrge for the first night. Stayed at another hotel in Barcelona: some of hte contents of the minbar had been opened and partially consumed. After mentioning this to management I was compensated by being allowed to consume whateve i wished ffrom the minibar gratis. These are businesses that understand customer service.

The class of travel should not affect the attitude to looking after pax (only the proportionate extent) as most J& F pax start in Y and the treatment there determines which airlines they choose for J & F.

No wonder QF's cut routes and lost pax
 
Have people attempted credit card reversals in the past regarding these issues?

I had a massive fight with Expedia regarding a hotel in the Middle East who stuck me in a regular room rather than the suite I'd paid for (as they were full). Expedia's final statement was that "the hotel advises you requested the other room on arrival" and dug their feet in.

I disputed the charge with Westpac, got a full refund and never heard another word (which will be my new first course of action)

Would it be worth trying this with Qantas?


am currently having issues with my paid F ticket CMB SIN that ended up in J due to aircraft substitution ( QF codeshare on emirates)

Booked via orbitz "Is qantas problem"
Qantas "id like the SC and points " yes sir
id like a refund thats teh OTA issue

That is tomorrows fight

Haven't thought about sorting it out via westpac! that black card may be useful after all!
 
slaussie - was this a paid ticket AUH-DUS? Why not refund it and buy a new ticket?

Yeah, I would have done that but AUH-DUS (or AUH-FRA) was the the continuation of the separate SYD-AUH ticket, which was booked using VA frequent flyer points.

Without disturbing VA tickets to AUH, Etihad was the only carrier that reasonably conveniently connected with VA flights. Besides, I thought my proposed solution to the original problem was very reasonable and given NO COST to Etihad (other than to flex their otherwise clinically rigid attitude),

I really though the transfer from AUH-DUS flight to the AUH-FRA flight was going to be a routine move. Had I anticipated the outcome as it turned out even remotely possible, cancelling the whole lot (wearing the costs of VA cancellation) and starting all over again would have saved me a lot of anxiety and anger.

As I moved several times from the hands of one unsympathetic Etihad employee into the hands of another unsympathetic employee, I truly hoped the next person in charge of my case would realise it was wrong the way we were treated. But that didn't happen, and in the process I lost so much time that in the end I was locked into a compromised situation.

For a seasoned traveller, I was shell shocked by this kind of treatment. Etihad's uncaring response paralised me and ultimately disarmed me into submission. In hindsight, I didn't find it possible that ANY carrier would be prepared to put their passenger through this much grief.

In over 30 years of flying (which carries memories of many good as well as bad travel experiences), Etihad have displayed a unique level of ignorance of their responsibility, when it can't be literally and rigidly captured by terms and conditions of carriage.

Shame on them is all I can say.
 
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...... Shame on them is all I can say.

slaussie, as I said earlier to Flying Mermaid, sending emails and having assistance chats don't usually help. Facebook them. Dive onto their page and pose your questions in a public arena. As an x contract manager, every negotiation needs a line(time, money, effort, etc) you never cross over. Many people never think of this line until too late and they, like you, get backed into a corner. Always start a negotiation with your minimum result acceptable in your mind.

As soon as they stone walled you, you either take the fight on(you have no new or big ammunition, so doomed to failure)..or.. determine where your time is best spent - cancel the flight, accept this cost and move on with the new knowledge ET are not nice to deal with and book with some one else. If you booked with them again, you could end up in exactly the same situation.
 
Can you imagine if other industries pulled this stunt?

"Yes we have confirmed your new BMW M3 for delivery today, but since we sold it to another customer we have a Toyota Corolla waiting for you to pick up. Unfortunately due to our terms* there is no refund."

I would be wanting a refund of the different in fares at the time I'd made the original booking - PLUS compensation just to make it even. From there the biz would need to win my business back again.
Why the hell do you continue to give business to a company that has no regard for you?

What Trippin said. By the way Airlines are not exempt from the Australian Consumer Law, regardless of what they try to tell you. You could take them to your state's small claims court if you were suitably annoyed.
 
In Dec 2015 I booked an AA award for self and wife all in U (except for last leg) for April and May 2016. Took some time to find the seats as this was my first attempt at an AA award booking.

However booked CBR-SYD-BKK (QF), BKK-HKG-SYD (CX), SYD-CBR (QF Y).

In mid March was just checking the booking and found that our CBR-SYD leg had changed from a J/Y config a/c to Y only and our previously allocated 3A and 3C had changed to row 15 or or something like with seats on the 3 across row on the other side of the a/c with a seat between us.

Not a word from Qantas about this of course, and if I hadn't checked would have only found out at the airport.

Rang QF to ask what had happened. Got a very pleasant CSO who could see why I was rather miffed and apologised profusely. He suggested he re-allocate us to 1A/C, but having flown those seats several times I really don't like bulkhead in my face. Anyway got 3A/C, but as an award flight don't expect any compensation although I think the taxes QF charged AA may have been different.
 
The Qantas airline is really Jet Star in disguise! and as you may have noticed over the years since Dixon left the helm every thing aboutQantas has been down graded including there attitude to there customers

I must agree with this they have also become more impersonal too, except for the sincere CSM greetings. :D
 
Good result l_t_l but don't bank on it. Mrs prozac and I had an incidence on VA where at boarding we were misdirected to board the wrong way (by rear door) and then when we returned misdirected a 2nd time only to find that the FA failed to perform her duties properly and we had to return back to the waiting area again as rear stairs had been removed, this time to find ourselves locked in the stairwell. There being no-one within sight I banged on the locked glass doors only to have same worthless FA round the corner and abuse us threatening security. On arrival at destination we discovered our baggage had not been loaded on the flight. Best I got from VA after some weeks was a poor apology where they tried to shift blame away from the pi55-poor FA.
Afraid I do not have a good opinion of Australian airline accountability.

This looks like a nightmare !! Banging on glass
 
In Dec 2015 I booked an AA award for self and wife all in U (except for last leg) for April and May 2016. Took some time to find the seats as this was my first attempt at an AA award booking.

However booked CBR-SYD-BKK (QF), BKK-HKG-SYD (CX), SYD-CBR (QF Y).

In mid March was just checking the booking and found that our CBR-SYD leg had changed from a J/Y config a/c to Y only and our previously allocated 3A and 3C had changed to row 15 or or something like with seats on the 3 across row on the other side of the a/c with a seat between us.

Not a word from Qantas about this of course, and if I hadn't checked would have only found out at the airport.

Rang QF to ask what had happened. Got a very pleasant CSO who could see why I was rather miffed and apologised profusely. He suggested he re-allocate us to 1A/C, but having flown those seats several times I really don't like bulkhead in my face. Anyway got 3A/C, but as an award flight don't expect any compensation although I think the taxes QF charged AA may have been different.

You might want to keep an eye on your CX sectors too. They are notorious for swapping out equipment on regional flights. More likely to affect an F booking though.
 
Yeah, I would have done that but AUH-DUS (or AUH-FRA) was the the continuation of the separate SYD-AUH ticket, which was booked using VA frequent flyer points. Without disturbing VA tickets to AUH, Etihad was the only carrier that reasonably conveniently connected with VA flights. Besides, I thought my proposed solution to the original problem was very reasonable and given NO COST to Etihad (other than to flex their otherwise clinically rigid attitude), I really though the transfer from AUH-DUS flight to the AUH-FRA flight was going to be a routine move. Had I anticipated the outcome as it turned out even remotely possible, cancelling the whole lot (wearing the costs of VA cancellation) and starting all over again would have saved me a lot of anxiety and anger. As I moved several times from the hands of one unsympathetic Etihad employee into the hands of another unsympathetic employee, I truly hoped the next person in charge of my case would realise it was wrong the way we were treated. But that didn't happen, and in the process I lost so much time that in the end I was locked into a compromised situation. For a seasoned traveller, I was shell shocked by this kind of treatment. Etihad's uncaring response paralised me and ultimately disarmed me into submission. In hindsight, I didn't find it possible that ANY carrier would be prepared to put their passenger through this much grief. In over 30 years of flying (which carries memories of many good as well as bad travel experiences), Etihad have displayed a unique level of ignorance of their responsibility, when it can't be literally and rigidly captured by terms and conditions of carriage. Shame on them is all I can say.
I have heard that when things go wrong with the ME carriers that service is totally uncaring. I am pinning my hopes on SQ, as I have heard good things, but time will tell....
 
Thanks for all the advice people. The facebook idea is very interesting and will talk to Miss FM on her return. However I suspect the only thing she is going to want me to do when she gets back is organise her engagement party :). They are flying back tonight, so fingers crossed no more downgrades!
 
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