Are other airlines also as bad as Qantas?

[Flying mermaid]

Oh, and of course you will be busy with choosing the 'mother of the bride' outfit!

Purple lace? I am already stressed - Mr FM and I only had 10 guests at our wedding (5 of whom were his family and invited themselves). I suspect this will be a little bigger

 

[JohnK]

Shame on them is all I can say.

Shame that any business that can treat a customer this way.

There's a huge difference between EY First and AB business regardless of whether the airfare was paid or points used.

Just like there's a huge difference between Qantas business and economy.

 

[love_the_life]

Purple lace? I am already stressed - Mr FM and I only had 10 guests at our wedding (5 of whom were his family and invited themselves). I suspect this will be a little bigger ��

OT, but did you happen to see Untold Australia, Indian Wedding Race on SBS the other night? That is the kind of thing you should be aspiring to (and apologies about ending with a preposition). The wedding was amazing.

 

[Flying mermaid]

OT, but did you happen to see Untold Australia, Indian Wedding Race on SBS the other night? That is the kind of thing you should be aspiring to (and apologies about ending with a preposition). The wedding was amazing.

to which I should be aspiring . No didn't but I have heard Indian wedding bring a whole new meaning to the word celebration.

 

[love_the_life]

If you get a chance have a look at it on SBS on demand.
'to which you should be aspiring' is indeed correct but it sounds somewhat naf.

 

[Flying mermaid]

If you get a chance have a look at it on SBS on demand.
'to which you should be aspiring' is indeed correct but it sounds somewhat naf.

I used to correct my kids constantly, but gave up. Hanging prepositions are in general use - it is a living language

 

[Chimpy]

I know that most people don't want to hear about SQ but the original question does mention other airlines.
It is also slightly off topic but does point out that some airlines still give great service.

Two years ago my wife and I were booked to fly (award) in F on the A380 from Sydney to Singapore. About
three weeks before we were about to leave we got a phone call from SQ to say the plane had been downgraded
from the A380 to 777-300 (refitted). We were given the choice to stick with the flight (still in F) or fly the next morning on
the larger plane. We decided to stick it out and had a fantastic flight and still got to try the A380 on our return.

The big surprise came a week later when we got a letter in the mail apologizing about the switch. To top it off
they had included two (return) upgrade vouchers from Business to First Class with twelve months to book.
It goes without saying we used them with an award booking the following year.

 

[Flying mermaid]

This was the sort of info I was seeking. I assume that SQ has its share of stuff ups as well, but they seem to have a much better service ethos. I have just enrolled Mr FM and I in Krisflyer - not really interested in points or status with them, but it seemed sensible to do.

 

[dajop]

SQ are not always that great, maybe better for F passengers. A few years ago on SIN-MEL was downgraded from a 777-300ER in business class (wide 1-2-1 seats) to cradle seats in business (2-3-2 layout) after the plane I was supposed to be on went for a detour off the runway at MUC. No compensation or anything just an apology. PPS at the time too. Not so bad as had just come off LHR flight and it was a day flight to MEL, the cradle seats removed the temptation to sleep and therefore helped manage jet lag.

Although that is different to being downgraded to Y and to be honest haven't heard of too many instances of that happening - from J anyway - so don't know what the policy would be.

I think for Y+ to Y downgrades due to slower roll out of fleet they have been offering move to different flight or $ voucher + confirmed upgrade voucher from Y to Y+ or full refund, but no cash handouts. Have to double check on FT what the situation is.

 

[TomVexille]

To get back to Flying Mermaid's original question - the answer is 'no'. Have a look at this thread: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....iscussion/cx-forced-downgrade-j-pe-75308.html

Downgrade on a single leg of a CX ticket from J to PE (HKG-PER) and cash refund of AUD2600 given to the passenger.

I think the answer to the OQ is yes and no. Some are as bad (or worse) than QF, and others are better.

 

[rogerkambah]

You might want to keep an eye on your CX sectors too. They are notorious for swapping out equipment on regional flights. More likely to affect an F booking though.

Nested in between we have flown BKK-HKG-ZRH (all good in CX U) and ZRH-LHR-DUB (BA Club Europe, not so good but better than BA Y).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This was the sort of info I was seeking. I assume that SQ has its share of stuff ups as well, but they seem to have a much better service ethos. I have just enrolled Mr FM and I in Krisflyer - not really interested in points or status with them, but it seemed sensible to do.

all airlines have glitches, but QF is operating many of its routes with limited frequency and with a fleet stretched to the limit. SQ & CX have far greater frequencies, and are better able to manage their fleet (and schedules). if one aircraft goes tech, they sub another.

 

[Bandicoot]

How much warning does Qantas give before downgrading one from Business to Economy? Are you given the option of cancelling and getting a refund? If this ever happened to me (not likely as it's not likely I'll every fly business) and I had the option I'd cancel, get the full refund and book economy with points (assuming seats are available). Is the ACCC aware of this rort?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How much warning does Qantas give before downgrading one from Business to Economy? Are you given the option of cancelling and getting a refund? If this ever happened to me (not likely as it's not likely I'll every fly business) and I had the option I'd cancel, get the full refund and book economy with points (assuming seats are available). Is the ACCC aware of this rort?

It depends. Sometimes downgrades are known in advance, at others the passenger is not advised until they are at the airport and find Qantas has sold the seat to someone else.

Cancelling is an option, but if you are midway through a trip, the cancellation might only be a small portion of what you paid - not enough to buy a ticket on another airline.

 

[JohnK]

How much warning does Qantas give before downgrading one from Business to Economy? Are you given the option of cancelling and getting a refund? If this ever happened to me (not likely as it's not likely I'll every fly business) and I had the option I'd cancel, get the full refund and book economy with points (assuming seats are available). Is the ACCC aware of this rort?

Sometimes you are not given any warning. A couple of threads on AFF in the past year leave bitter taste in mouth. The one with the elderly couple in LAX was really bad.

Generally the downgrade wouldn't be an issue if you can travel another day but getting back to family and/work is a priority for some people.

And the Qantas stance of using last minute full fare economy to calculate the compensation is the kick in the guts once you are down....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And the Qantas stance of using last minute full fare economy to calculate the compensation is the kick in the guts once you are down....

We suspect this but it hasn't been confirmed. QF refers to a downgrade table, which is not available to the public. QF was not forthcoming on how refunds are calculated when asked here on AFF.

 

[Flying mermaid]

How much warning does Qantas give before downgrading one from Business to Economy? Are you given the option of cancelling and getting a refund? If this ever happened to me (not likely as it's not likely I'll every fly business) and I had the option I'd cancel, get the full refund and book economy with points (assuming seats are available). Is the ACCC aware of this rort?

I would think ACCC are fully aware. I e-mailed last year and I am sure others have. Mine was just a general suggestion that Australian passengers need protection in the same way that European passengers are protected. If Qantas was obliged to provide expensive compensation, I am sure they would suddenly become a lot more careful about how often they did it.

In my opinion Qantas is really working its planes hard, so if something goes wrong with one, these sorts of things happen. I think we can be tolerant of occasional downgrades due to equipment problems, but it seems to happen too often for a whole range of reasons. It is also the way it is handled - often quite poorly. It isn't just business to Y either. Mr FM and I were downgraded from F to J (these were paid fares) and I had to fight to get back into F on another route.

As far as getting a full refund goes, I suppose if your fare conditions allowed you to you could, but often there are penalties. The so called refund that Qantas says it will give you is pathetic. A friend of mine had paid for Premium economy to the USA. on her return leg they were overbooked and at checkin she was asked if she would accept a downgrade to Y. They offered her some sweetners (entry to the J lounge) and a refund and she thought that sounded Ok. On return she found the "refund" between premium and Y amounted to $200. She was totally outraged.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I would think ACCC are fully aware. I e-mailed last year and I am sure others have. Mine was just a general suggestion that Australian passengers need protection in the same way that European passengers are protected. If Qantas was obliged to provide expensive compensation, I am sure they would suddenly become a lot more careful about how often they did it.

In my opinion Qantas is really working its planes hard, so if something goes wrong with one, these sorts of things happen. I think we can be tolerant of occasional downgrades due to equipment problems, but it seems to happen too often for a whole range of reasons. It is also the way it is handled - often quite poorly. It isn't just business to Y either. Mr FM and I were downgraded from F to J (these were paid fares) and I had to fight to get back into F on another route.

As far as getting a full refund goes, I suppose if your fare conditions allowed you to you could, but often there are penalties. The so called refund that Qantas says it will give you is pathetic. A friend of mine had paid for Premium economy to the USA. on her return leg they were overbooked and at checkin she was asked if she would accept a downgrade to Y. They offered her some sweetners (entry to the J lounge) and a refund and she thought that sounded Ok. On return she found the "refund" between premium and Y amounted to $200. She was totally outraged.

All these instances you mentioned are cases worth following up with the consumer affairs office in your state. Advice is provided over the phone, free of charge.

This is the last sort of thing airlines wish to have to go to court. Many terms and conditions in airline contracts sail close to the wind. A court determination could have major implications.

But if people continue to accept what they are given, little is likely to change. An airline might have equipment problems, but why should they keep your money for not delivering a service in that case? By all means downgrade, or reroute you, but at least give back the money. Otherwise it is unfair gain.

In the case of overbooking - for example to the USA - QF has sold the same PE seat twice, and keeps all that profit.

 

[Flying mermaid]

But if people continue to accept what they are given, little is likely to change.

While I totally agree with you, as a soon to be geriatric, I don't have enough years left to be bothered wasting it on campaigns against airlines.

The whole loyalty thing has led to people tying themselves to one airline, which can led to uncaring service. In the "old days", if an airline slipped then you moved to another. People used to hop between TAA and Ansett quite easily which had a built in motivator to improve for the airline losing customers. Now people tolerate a lot more because of the handcuffs. Great for airlines, not so good for customers.

Anyway Miss FM has returned and all went well ( apart from not loading her meal order). There was a terrible DYKWIA behind in 4 E - apparently insisted on his meal coming first because he wanted to sleep and after he had bullied the FAs into doing so, went to sleep and snored loudly for the whole flight, as well as screaming "No" every 5 minutes in his dreams. He walked off the flight still complaining to his friends about the poor service. Apparently he had his button pressed for 15 minutes before anyone came.

 

[Bandicoot]

The ACCC has taken action against Hertz Sydney Airport for predatory practices re "damage" to cars, and against Coles for the "freshly baked on the premises" scam. I doubt it was due to proactive surveillance by ACCC - more likely action was taken after umpteen complaints from consumers. I've learnt the power of complaint - complain and complain and complain and one day someone might actually do something about it. Mind you this strategy means you have to be seriously ticked off about something to bother. But if we spread the joy and as a matter of fact lodge a complaint, for the record, then who knows. But rolling over will just let the corporations get away with rorting.