Are our points worthless now?

[Febs]

Oh noes the sky is falling!!1 ;-)

Provided OneWorld Explorers are still 140/280k, I'm happy. That's pretty much all I've ever spent my points on.

Cheers,
- Febs.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

yep, worthless if you use them only for ASA tickets.

 

[Happy Trails]

Anyone who feels their points are worthless is welcome to send them my way.

 

[kempvet]

AAdvantage: can you fly local or overseas via Oz and get the points/credits paid unto AA (ie: one world member?)

you can read the AAdvantage Oneworld redemption chart here https://www.aa.com/i18n/disclaimers/aadvantageAllPartnerChart.jsp
and the mile earning chart for Qantas coded flights is below.
Also important that just about all flights on BA and AY using your AAdvantage number receive at least 100% base miles for elite qualifying

Effective for flights flown on/after August 1, 2013 Qantas flights crediting towards AAdvantage

[TABLE="class: prod-table"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7, align: center"]Class of Service[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7, align: center"]Purchased Fares Booked in:*[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7, align: center"]Base Miles (elite status qualifying)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7, align: center"]Class of Service Bonus Miles[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7, align: center"]Elite Qualifying Points per Mile Earned[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]First Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]A, F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]100%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]50%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Business Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]C, D, I, J[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]100%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]25%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Premium Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]R, T, W[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]100%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]10%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Full Fare Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Y, B[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]100%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]H, K[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]100%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Discount Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]L, M, V[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]50%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]1.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Discount Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]N, G, S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]50%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"].50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Discount Economy Class[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]O, Q[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]25%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: center"].50[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[simongr]

So for me personally on this year's travel (say 45 return trips to MEL from SYD) all booked as flex savers so tending to book into V class - I would earn 1,800 SCs - enough for WP on QFF. However on AAdvantage I would earn 38,610 EQPs - not even enough for AA Plat (being equivalent to QF SG). I would be close on sectors with 90 sectors and on base miles I would be even further off.

Something to think about if people are thinking of making the switch.

 

[amaroo]

I'm a classic junkie. Re-deemed a truck load over the years.

IMHO, ASA are nothing special if you are looking for 4+ F/J long haul seats......they're good for a cheap seats way of sneaking over the various status marks.

In 17 years of QFF membership - I've had no issues securing 4+ premium LH seats.......they're just not on QF metal. Plenty of seats on CX/BA/AA and others.

 

[kempvet]

So for me personally on this year's travel (say 45 return trips to MEL from SYD) all booked as flex savers so tending to book into V class - I would earn 1,800 SCs - enough for WP on QFF. However on AAdvantage I would earn 38,610 EQPs - not even enough for AA Plat (being equivalent to QF SG). I would be close on sectors with 90 sectors and on base miles I would be even further off.

Something to think about if people are thinking of making the switch.

Think segments then, if you travel at least 100 segments a year, you become Executive Platinum with AA (WP)

[h=4]Elite-Status Qualification Levels[/h]As we track your activity, we'll notify you when you qualify for membership in one of these premium levels. You can qualify for elite status by earning the required number of miles, points or segments during a calendar year:
BUT like QF you would need to fly at least 4 segments on AA metal, this may cause some people problems.

2013 Elite Status Qualification[TABLE="class: prod-table, width: 330"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Elite Status[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Miles or Points
Required[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Segments
Required[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Executive Platinum[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]100,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Platinum[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]50,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Gold[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]25,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]30[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


​

 

[ftm]

Me thinks it will just be too hard for everyone....bank the points in the credit card and see what they can offer IMHO

That is what I have been doing. Keep the points in Amex and transfer them over as needed. My logic was that this was an insurance policy against an airline either going under (like Ansett) or some change to the FF program if choice that made it more desirable to send them elsewhere.

 

[BD1959]

Of course our points aren't worthless and - unless we were using them solely for xASAs - they aren't even worth less.

For anyone who cares to remember waaaayyyyy back ....

I recall booking a "collect the icon tour" back in 1998: MEL-ADL-ASP-SYD-CNS-TSV-BNE-MEL (sorry TAS and WA!) originally priced up at 32,000 points - was a no-brainer tro book J at 37,500 points. Don't recall having to pay fuel fine back then either (but my memory isn't what it was!)

I suppose the lesson here is:

1) QF has removed a particular benefit/revenue stream. They're a business and this will happen from time-to-time

2) QF will erode point value over time (somehow they have to both allow for inflation AND mitigate against the liability of the increasing point-earn streams)

3) You - as a customer of these "benefits" will continue to review whether the benefits out-weigh the "expense".

4) Each of us will have a different tipping-point for 3) but only when that tipping point reaches a critical mass (whether in numbers or in "premium" customer numbers) will QF actually start to modify it's own behavior

Just my 2c


Regards,

BD

 

[Yoz]

Isn't that the theory, find a classic award call up to check availability as an xASA?

Has anyone tested this theory? Plenty of accusations that these discounted ASA's can't be seen any more, of course not, they're not supposed to be seen, the communication has said you must call. But has anyone called up yet and tested the correlation?

I'm not sure this theory works based on the following:
- 25th June I was able to find CGK-MEL (50,814 pts) YASA on 21st Aug
- 26th June I was not able to find this fare on 21st Aug
- Can still see classic availability for large blocks in Aug

Might work for JASAs and not YASAs?

 

[drewbles]

Still getting my head around the changes. Just did a simple dummy lookup of a SYD-ADL-SYD run in J.

Points + Pay ('JASA' I guess) - 86k points + $1161

Classic award - 48k points + $80

Without an ExpertFlyer subscription is the best hope to give them a call and suggest those flights and basically hope there is ASA award seating at Classic levels? Or is there some other method in play here?

Looks like I'll require an EF Pro account going forward, but if there are any tricks, they'd be good to know.

Pay your $99 for an EF subscription and you've saved instantly. Or, you can sign up for a free 5 day trial if you're only going to use it once.

I've not regretted my EF subscription for a second. Money very very well spent (and saved me literally tens of thousands of dollars on air fares over the years).

 

[simongr]

Think segments then, if you travel at least 100 segments a year, you become Executive Platinum with AA (WP)

[h=4]Elite-Status Qualification Levels[/h]As we track your activity, we'll notify you when you qualify for membership in one of these premium levels. You can qualify for elite status by earning the required number of miles, points or segments during a calendar year:
BUT like QF you would need to fly at least 4 segments on AA metal, this may cause some people problems.

2013 Elite Status Qualification[TABLE="class: prod-table, width: 330"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Elite Status[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Miles or Points
Required[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #AFC8E7"]Segments
Required[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Executive Platinum[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]100,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Platinum[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]50,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Gold[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]25,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]30[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


​

Thing is - I don't want to be doing 100 DOM whY sectors per year...

 

[straitman]

I'm not sure this theory works based on the following:
- 25th June I was able to find CGK-MEL (50,814 pts) YASA on 21st Aug
- 26th June I was not able to find this fare on 21st Aug
- Can still see classic availability for large blocks in Aug

Might work for JASAs and not YASAs?

That may simply mean that the ticket you were looking at was snaffled up by someone else. Nothing new there :!:

 

[Yoz]

That may simply mean that the ticket you were looking at was snaffled up by someone else. Nothing new there :!:

Hmm. Just realised I was trying to highlight that classic availability does not definitely mean a cheap xASA is available (it didn't prior and I doubt it does now).

Prior to the changes there was classic availability for many dates when the cheap xASA was not available. In hindsight my previous post tells us nothing of the sort and is utterly useless *facepalm*

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

The floor value from my calculations should be between 0.8 and 0.9 cents per QFF point.

If you search for a flight, and divide the cash fare by the number of points shown when you click on "View In Points" will give you some idea.

 

[equus]

Quite apart from the likelihood that someone booked it, searching on 26 June tells you nothing, as the new web engine won't utilise the classic award buckets - so this would be the expected behavior, even if the fare is still bookable.

Another factor to take into account is the possible impact of status. If you have status, you may be able to see classic inventory only available because of that status, with said inventory not able to be accessed via the ASA booking.

Of course, it could also be the fact that there genuinely is a classic availability open to all, but not usable for ASA. As the who can book what, what buckets are available all fall into the black area of yield management, it is quite possible for the behavior to change from day to day based on factors which may not be apparent - and not even related to that particular flight. This could be entirely normal, and nothing to so with any changes, which were supposedly only to the web front end, not to the underlying booking engine.

 

[equus]

The floor value from my calculations should be between 0.8 and 0.9 cents per QFF point.

If you search for a flight, and divide the cash fare by the number of points shown when you click on "View In Points" will give you some idea.

And all the flights will fall into that approximate range. The web front end no longer considers the PUZX classes on the "regular" search.

Previously there were effectively three web booking front ends, searching different fare buckets and pricing in different ways (the following is general only, my opinion as an outsider, and may contain inaccuracies, but should be close enough to illustrate).

1. Regular $ fares. Searches over all buckets except classic awards (PUZX). Priced in $ (to start with). Then at booking, allowed point to be used as part payment (points plus pay), subject to minimum points. Never checked to see if there was a maximum points (allowing zero cash). Hence this did both $ and "award" bookings.

2. Classic awards. Searched only PUZX. Priced in fixed points (more or less, some funky calcs required for multi-sector to allow the "OTW" award pricing) Required $ co-pay, but did award bookings. Could pay the +++ by points as well, at extra cost.

3. Any Seat Awards. Searched all fare buckets. Priced in points. Pricing approach varied depending on underlying "cost" which could have been $ or "classic" points. Allows points only, but allows $ co-pay, and does award bookings. Minimum points required is variable, depending on what the classic point cost would be.

What a mess - no wonder they wanted to rationalise. Not only are there awards everywhere, but all fare buckets appear in more than one of the front ends, but get priced differently. There are multiple approaches (start with $ and then points plus pay) or start with Any Seat Award and then add cash, for mixing $ and points, with different rules for minimum and maximum, and the possibility for the two approaches to be giving different answers.

Now we have only 2 front ends (look like 1, but there are really two), and they each look at a mutually exclusive set of fare buckets.

A. Tick the "Show Classic Awards only" option, and you are using the old option 3. Only uses PUZX, and does classic awards.

B. Don't tick the box. You are only searching all the fares buckets except PUZX. Allows points plus pay, subject to a minimum points amount. Looks very like the old option 1. All that has been done is to add a conversion of the $ to points (make the pay zero), on the search screen.

Now have only 1 way online to access each fare bucket. All points options are available on each option, and $ can be substituted for points for anything except the classic "base" fare.

Opportunity for inconsistency removed - along with the ability to use PUZX for an ASA. I suspect QF view that as collateral damage, an quite possibly serendipitous.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Opportunity for inconsistency removed - along with the ability to use PUZX for an ASA. I suspect QF view that as collateral damage, an quite possibly serendipitous.

Probably more than serendipitous - I'm sure the change will enable them to 're-assess' their frequent flyer liability and release some of it to the income statement as revenue. I suspect next half year results will show another 'record' profit for QFF, potentially helping to offset further blood being spilled in other divisions (interational changeover to Dubai, domestic capacity growth)

 

[JohnK]

The sky is not falling. Not yet anyway.

Think segments then, if you travel at least 100 segments a year, you become Executive Platinum with AA (WP)

The good old AA vs QF debate.

How would someone go qualifying Executive Platinum on a mix of E, O, N class domestic airfares they are paying for out of their own pocket?

Horses for courses....

 

[drsmithy]

Oh noes the sky is falling!!1 ;-)

Provided OneWorld Explorers are still 140/280k, I'm happy. That's pretty much all I've ever spent my points on.

Cheers,
- Febs.

Do these book into a bucket that earns SCs ?