Article: Long-Haul Economy Class - A Valuable Reality Check

[serfty]

I did it it a few times last year, starting with SQ - an spontaneoeus escape to SIN, red eyes each way. I also did a $600 Qantas O class return to SIN via SYD each way.

Takeaway? Status helps immensely. Also, making allowances for what to expect.

With SQ I selected seats down the back rather than paying extra for "upfront seats". Doing this I was hoping the areas remained less crowded. I checked regularly, moving around as other seats were allocated. I was lucky on the MEL-SIN as I scored a row of three to myself. On the return to SYD it was a full 380 and I ended up in the last row. It was what it was and I managed 50% sleep when I tried, both flights.

Having status, I utilised the boarding priority to ensure I was settled before the masses arived.

With QF1/2 I travelled both times in 49C.

I have a QF94 coming up in a couple of months and have selected last row of economy windows pon the 789 as you get extra space between the seat and the window as well as extra underseat storage.

One takeaway was it takes a long time to disembark when you are in the last row of economy on a 380.

 

[AFF_Founder]

Now that I've a bit more time on my hands, I'm doing a bit more travelling

I'm currently in Cape Town and slowly recovering from an horrendous trip in Y: QR989 (14.5 hours), 3 hours stop-over in Doha, and then QR1369 (10 hours). Travelling from Melbourne to Cape Town is always going to be a long flight with multiple connections. Given the time of the year prices were sky-high (pun intended), and the only award availability was on Qatar in Y. To be fair to Qatar, the flights were on-time, baggage appeared on the other side, and the service/food was adequate.

As others have said on this thread, its all about your mindset. I knew it would be awful and was prepared with my phone loaded up with podcasts and audiobooks. I had zero expectations, so wasn't disappointed. I didn't see the journey as part of the travel experience, just something to be endured. I've now been in CT for a couple of days and am already forgetting about the flights and am enjoying being here. Am also very grateful to be able to travel and a reminder that international travel is a privilege which is not available to most people.

Not looking forward to the return trip though!

 

[The black sheep]

I enjoyed the perspective given by MattG
Many of us enjoyed some golden years where we could manage J class travel. And many have now had to re-visit the horrors of Y. But I really think that a dose of "perspective" could make all these experiences better.
When I started long-haul travel, obviously in Y, in-air hours were a pain that one found ways to get over. When you start to fly J, it is immensely better, but then you have another load of issues. Yes, you may have a lay-flat bed, etc, but it is truly not that comfortable. Your expectations have shifted from sheer survival to an enjoyable sleep. And no matter how fancy, even the best first class seats do not offer a rest experience better than you can get at home on single mattress on the floor...
But when you go back to Y, you still may have this concept of sleep, and attempt it, and invariably fail. So change your approach. Look at a long haul Y trip as 10 or whatever hours needed to entertain yourself in an upright physical position. Plan movies, whatever, but not actual restful sleep. i feel that if you approach your Y flights from this angle, you will survive.

 

[drcam]

I almost enjoy flying in whY. It's the only time I feel vaguely-not-bitter about being in the shortest 10% of the adult population**.

**Some degree of sarcasm intended

 

[SYD]

I almost enjoy flying in whY. It's the only time I feel vaguely-not-bitter about being in the shortest 10% of the adult population**.

**Some degree of sarcasm intended

So you won’t mind that we just snagged that J reward seat you were looking for. Phew!

 

[justinbrett]

I can handle long haul Y - but I mitigate:

-Ideally don't fly overnight
-Ideally fly Westbound
-If can't do either of the above, arrive at destination late afternoon or evening.

I can't really sleep in Y or Y+, not more than a couple of hours. Remove the expectation of sleep and Y is much more tolerable.

Early morning arrivals (such as the 6am LHR arrivals from Australia or 6am Australia arrivals from USA) are the absolute worst. These are the ones I try to book J, or fly a different route (via HNL works well for USA).

 

[SYD]

-Ideally fly Westbound

Really?

Generally Eastbound is mercifully shorter flying time.

 

[justinbrett]

Really?

Generally Eastbound is mercifully shorter flying time.

Circadium rhythm. Much easier on the body, and forgiving if you don't get sleep. Flying East is much worse for Jetlag.

 

[kpc]

I avoid school hols and Xmas / Chinese New Year (to / from Asia) travel....those are the periods where it is really hard to get award seats. I also try and book as far forwards as possible. Being a bit flexible, this year, I have managed to secure for 2 pax long haul J award seats to Middle East and back, Malaysia and back, and Africa and back. My last long haul overnight flights in Y were award seats on QF Mel-Lax in 2014 but there were 5 of us travelling back then....it was not fun on the 14+ hour flight! I will accept Y travel up to 8 hours but only day time flights. If I have to fly overnight in Y, I won't travel!

 

[dajop]

Circadium rhythm. Much easier on the body, and forgiving if you don't get sleep. Flying East is much worse for Jetlag.

To illustrate, using only a 3 hr time difference (summer time), on a 7hr flight. Exacerbated the more the time zones and the longer the flight.

You leave MEL at 19:25 , arr SIN 00:15. Say at home/hotel by 01:30. OK it's 04:30 body clock time, but you've got a full night ahead of you to try get some good sleep.

You leave SIN at 19:40. arr MEL 06:10, Say at home/hotel by 07:30. It's also 04:30 body clock time, but you've got a full day ahead of you and if you try and get some sleep you'll ruin yourself for the day.

 

[justinbrett]

To illustrate, using only a 3 hr time difference (summer time), on a 7hr flight. Exacerbated the more the time zones and the longer the flight.

You leave MEL at 19:25 , arr SIN 00:15. Say at home/hotel by 01:30. OK it's 04:30 body clock time, but you've got a full night ahead of you to try get some good sleep.

You leave SIN at 19:40. arr MEL 06:10, Say at home/hotel by 07:30. It's also 04:30 body clock time, but you've got a full day ahead of you and if you try and get some sleep you'll ruin yourself for the day.

And for that reason, it's a lot harder to avoid overnight flights flying Eastbound.

Think SYD-SIN, HNL-SYD, LHR-JFK, all Westbound, mostly daytime flights.

The reverse direction are almost all overnight flights.

 

[dajop]

And for that reason, it's a lot harder to avoid overnight flights flying Eastbound.

Think SYD-SIN, HNL-SYD, LHR-JFK, all Westbound, mostly daytime flights.

The reverse direction are almost all overnight flights.

For SIN-SYD not so bad, there are 3 daytime flights, but too bad so sad if you are wedded to QFF, which has 2 QF and a BA flight, all overnight. Same SIN-MEL, 3 flights which is increasing to 4 when EK return in late March, which will at least give a QFF option.

Little bit of trivia: Will be entirely possible to take 3x day flights on EK from Europe to MEL (with overnights in DXB and SIN).

If in F* or Y, I vastly prefer day flights. In J, overnight flights are OK.

* such a rare treat, not going to waste it sleeping!

 

[SYD]

Yep, it’s a shame that QF and VA only have those day out / night home regional flights. And HND is night both ways!

But if you have the time, at least QF72 SIN-PER while late night is the same Timezone and there’s a choice of day flights the following day back east.

 

[Beano]

Boo Hoo, all you J (or F) flyers who can't contemplate traveling long haul Y! Think of all those, including myself, where Y is the ONLY option, unless I want to re-mortgage the house, or don't plan on flying long haul again for the next 10 years. Definitely a First World Problem!

 

[Melburnian1]

Thats why premium economy is a good mix.

I am about to pull the trigger on a mostly Y trip to the UK and now I am scared.

An excellent article from Mattg, but for me, premium economy is a waste of money.

Typically, the entertainment unit and tray table are stored in an armrest so if the adjacent seat is vacant, one can't use that space to attempt to sleep. Worse than economy class with a 'shadow'.

Those of us who have the funds to travel business class internationally ought be grateful to God for this is a blessing. I don't want to go back to Y.

However economy class with a spare seat (while not enjoyable) still allows one to get to an overseas destination much quicker than by ship, and although hard to imagine, remains out of reach of probably at least two billion of the world's c.eight billion population.

Difficult to comprehend but there are untold millions of people in Africa and parts of Asia and South America who in their whole lives may not travel more than 10 kilometres from their village. I have met many in countries like Bolivia, Paraguay, Mexico, India, Indonesia and Philippines. Some of course do make the leap, migrate to an urban setting, get a job and eventually have savings allowing them to travel. Can we definitively say we are 'happier' than them? Hard to judge.

As Beano says, we tend to immerse ourselves in first world problems whereas some I've met in such villages greet me with a smile and engage in conversation in which complaining is most definitely not on the agenda. My prayers are for them.

 

[daft009]

An excellent article from Mattg, but for me, premium economy is a waste of money.

Typically, the entertainment unit and tray table are stored in an armrest so if the adjacent seat is vacant, one can't use that space to attempt to sleep. Worse than economy class with a 'shadow'.

Those of us who have the funds to travel business class internationally ought be grateful to God for this is a blessing. I don't want to go back to Y.

However economy class with a spare seat (while not enjoyable) still allows one to get to an overseas destination much quicker than by ship, and although hard to imagine, remains out of reach of probably at least two billion of the world's c.eight billion population.

Difficult to comprehend but there are untold millions of people in Africa and parts of Asia and South America who in their whole lives may not travel more than 10 kilometres from their village. I have met many in countries like Bolivia, Paraguay, Mexico, India, Indonesia and Philippines. Some of course do make the leap, migrate to an urban setting, get a job and eventually have savings allowing them to travel. Can we definitively say we are 'happier' than them? Hard to judge.

As Beano says, we tend to immerse ourselves in first world problems whereas some I've met in such villages greet me with a smile and engage in conversation in which complaining is most definitely not on the agenda. My prayers are for them.

Very true.
My ancestral village in India hadn't seen electricity till about 8yrs ago when my dad wrote to the Prime Minister asking for it.

As he built a school there for the poor kids.

They wrote an article on him in the local newspaper too

 

[kookaburra75]

Ah Matt - you're getting soft We'll have to talk about it at the next get together at the Kingo.

Over the many years I've been sitting on flights, virtually all have been up the back, including countless red eyes domestically (KNX-PER all stops, PER-MEL, DWN-MEL etc etc) and international. In 2015-2020 I was doing 3-4 trips to the UK for work, and company policy only covered up to PE. As I can't sleep sitting up I went Flex Y as I always had to juggle flights at the last moment, and put in for upgrade to J on points - and I was successful 50% of the time. While I'm tallish (6'2"), I have short legs/long body, which means leg room isn't an issue.

Fortunately, as others have said, when I get onboard I know what I'm getting into, and just zone out with a book or go through the TV shows on my tablet that I don't watch at home. Screaming kids don't worry me (as they're not mine), and a couple of times I've helped out with the kids as you can see the mother is always stressed out - there never seems to be a father on the scene. But, I have learnt what to do, and what not to do, to make it tolerable:

• Chill out - everyone else is in the same boat as you
• Help out your fellow passengers sitting around you - although some can just be grumpy and I leave them alone
• Always get an aisle seat
• As I have status, board early, get some space up top, and spread your stuff around you
• On the old QF380's, go for the mini-cabin up top - sadly no more
• Change into light weight tracksuit pants and a t-shirt for sleeping or snoozing - I hate sleeping in my clothes. Pyjamas are not just for F/J
• Make use of a self-inflating hiking mat on the seat (@RooFlyer mattress comforter - patent pending)
• Don't pick seats down the back hoping you might get a vacant seat next to you, or even a whole row - it just never works, except on the Dallas flights perhaps
• Don't expect an exotic meal/dining experience
• Don't think drinking airline wine out of a plastic cup will make it taste better
• Don't worry that being seated down the back will mean you're last off and seems to take ages - your luggage won't arrive any faster, and you'll be standing at the baggage pickup anyway

Now as I am a few years away from retirement, MrsK and I are planning some big trips for when that happens, and are going through the conversation on the flights. After treating MrsK to Bus when we spent one of her significant birthdays in Singapore, she likes bus class. But, as I point out, if we break up the trip to say Europe in a series of shorter legs in Y, the money we save goes a long way towards luxury hotels and nice restaurants. I'd quite happily trade a few uncomfortable flights, for a very comfortable bed in a top end hotel. But, that conversation is still ongoing.

 

[Human]

Boo Hoo, all you J (or F) flyers who can't contemplate traveling long haul Y! Think of all those, including myself, where Y is the ONLY option, unless I want to re-mortgage the house, or don't plan on flying long haul again for the next 10 years. Definitely a First World Problem!

I do understand — I’m a teacher and I often reflect as I read people’s posts here that I must have the lowest income on all AFF! However, as Matt’s article touched on, using points is a great “hack” which means that people like us with a low income (and without an employer who pays for our flights) can still fly business class or better.

 

[drcam]

My last trip in long-haul Y was SYD-LAX on Delta, I was unable to get a redemption or upgrade in J.

- I went to my local gourmet foodstore and bought perhaps $35 worth of treats in the form of appetizers, desserts and snacks to take on my journey
- Baggage checkin was even grimmer than expected, not helped by people not having ESTAs even hours before their flight
- I had access to the Amex lounge and had a perfectly serviceable, if not gourmet, hot breakfast
- The Y food on Delta was perfectly acceptable and they even offered an option from my country, something that Qantas and United probably wouldn't do. But the garnishments I purchased the night before made it almost as pleasant as a bottom-end business-class meal!
- I paid $300 to upgrade to a Comfort Plus seat with the middle seat blocked out. My nearest neighbour turned out to be a very nice person who shared many interests with me and we were able to have a meaningful conversation and share advice on hobbies
- Immigration at LAX was as grim as ever, the lines were 1.5 hours long, and I was basically treated like a criminal and made to produce my WORK ID by an officer who in a grand hypocrisy was an IMMIGRANT HIMSELF FROM THE SAME COUNTRY AS ME
- I slept at least six hours, if not more
- Overall, considering I'm only ~ 5'7.5'' and the upgraded seat gave an extra 2'' of legroom, it wasn't bad

 

[Forg]

Boo Hoo, all you J (or F) flyers who can't contemplate traveling long haul Y! Think of all those, including myself, where Y is the ONLY option, unless I want to re-mortgage the house, or don't plan on flying long haul again for the next 10 years. Definitely a First World Problem!

My better-half actually doesn’t care about travelling Y … she fits the seats, and she crashes-out as soon as her backside hits the seat (took her a while to remember to remind the FA not wake her for meals). She was flying enough to have the status for lounge access & their showers where relevant, and if she’s going to be asleep the whole flight anyway then food & drink & service onboard (and a flat-bed) are all wasted …